Bothersome things about Vajrayana and Dzogchen

Enochian
Posts: 364
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:19 pm

Re: Bothersome things about Vajrayana and Dzogchen

Postby Enochian » Mon May 02, 2011 4:32 pm

.....
Last edited by Enochian on Mon May 16, 2011 10:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There is an ever-present freedom from grasping the mind.

Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.

User avatar
Malcolm
Posts: 24173
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Bothersome things about Vajrayana and Dzogchen

Postby Malcolm » Mon May 02, 2011 4:36 pm





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

username
Posts: 759
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:23 pm

Re: Bothersome things about Vajrayana and Dzogchen

Postby username » Mon May 02, 2011 4:44 pm

Enochian, you are not saying anything new or substantial but re-repeating your rhetoric in your usual tongue in cheek tone that vajrayana practices, now it's phowa, are no different to Astral Projection/OBE and other new age fads and spiritual materialisms in the market, trying to provoke reactions. Technically it is called trolling.
Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes

Enochian
Posts: 364
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:19 pm

Re: Bothersome things about Vajrayana and Dzogchen

Postby Enochian » Mon May 02, 2011 4:54 pm

......
Last edited by Enochian on Mon May 16, 2011 10:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There is an ever-present freedom from grasping the mind.

Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.

User avatar
adinatha
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:07 am

Re: Bothersome things about Vajrayana and Dzogchen

Postby adinatha » Mon May 02, 2011 5:15 pm

No he genuinely believes what he is saying and he is trying to figure out the connections, because he wants to have a path all his own, fully researched, analyzed and designed by himself. His problem is that his own work is not giving him results that resemble what is described in buddhist texts that he reads so he is confused about what those texts mean. He is convinced that hindu kundalini yoga can't be any different than tummo yoga, so he ought to be able to get a functionally equivalent result. He is also convinced that modern neophytes like Robert Bruce have reached enlightenment on their own by just tinkering and figuring it all out for themselves, and by gosh, he is Indian after all, so he ought to have more innate experience than some white Australian. Not only that, but he is American so that gives him the power of good old Yankee ingenuity. If he can just keep us talking long enough, especially Namdrol, he will somehow be able to fully reverse engineer Dzogchen and the sky's the limit. Don't believe him when he says he only has an academic interest. He is saying that for now, while he is tinkering with his system. But I guarantee you he will not be publishing any papers and he is not working an advanced degree at any institution of higher learning. He is working like a mad scientist in his own lab (bedroom at his parents' house), and when he can concoct the right formula he will try to become an Adyashanti or Eckhart Tolle, two people I know he reveres, because they are also self-starting self-promoters who made it to the big time. It's also a case of what Nisargadatta Maharaja described when he prophesied, "Now all you whites are here learning this truth, and then you go to your homes and teach it to other whites, and then they will return these teachings to our homeland of India, and Indians will throw garlands on you, this is India's nature." Basically, if a white guy didn't figure it out, it can't be right, because he is a typical self-doubting Indian who just talks confident. The Indian psyche is totally screwed up and a million levels, I know because I am one too. But he is doomed from the start from being able to do any reverse engineering, because he is unwilling to accept guru yoga and lineage as the start point. Until he does so, all this talk is for nothing and none of these conversations will have any benefit for anyone. I've known this guy for years. He's not so bad; he actually may be on the brink of understanding. All our Indian heritage really does give us a sort of genetic head start on these teachings, because they are deeply ingrained in everything about our culture, food and our bodies and minds have been shaped by enlightenment culture for many thousands of years. But that brink will be stuck on the brink forever until he gets a teacher, a yidam guru and gets to the practice of the descent of blessings. That goes for anyone else too. This last part is so simple too. It's always the most simple missing link in the puzzle that clears up the whole picture. Once he makes this connection he could actually gain a high realization which is why I have bothered with his punk ass for so long.
CAW!

dingirfecho
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:32 pm

Re: Bothersome things about Vajrayana and Dzogchen

Postby dingirfecho » Mon May 02, 2011 5:20 pm


Enochian
Posts: 364
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:19 pm

Re: Bothersome things about Vajrayana and Dzogchen

Postby Enochian » Mon May 02, 2011 5:35 pm

.....
Last edited by Enochian on Mon May 16, 2011 10:37 pm, edited 5 times in total.
There is an ever-present freedom from grasping the mind.

Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.

Josef
Posts: 1626
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:44 pm

Re: Bothersome things about Vajrayana and Dzogchen

Postby Josef » Mon May 02, 2011 5:38 pm


User avatar
Grigoris
Former staff member
Posts: 14670
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Bothersome things about Vajrayana and Dzogchen

Postby Grigoris » Mon May 02, 2011 5:42 pm

A long slow goodbye coming up folks... Don't leave your seats, keep your eyes glued to the screen! :tongue:
:namaste:

PS Dear Enochian, I actually believe you are serious about what you are doing/saying too... Unfortunately though it is (also) seriously delusive and will not come to any good.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

User avatar
kirtu
Former staff member
Posts: 5594
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:29 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: Elements

Postby kirtu » Mon May 02, 2011 5:54 pm



"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

User avatar
kirtu
Former staff member
Posts: 5594
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:29 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: Bothersome things about Vajrayana and Dzogchen

Postby kirtu » Mon May 02, 2011 5:59 pm



"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

User avatar
kirtu
Former staff member
Posts: 5594
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:29 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: Elements

Postby kirtu » Mon May 02, 2011 6:03 pm



"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche

username
Posts: 759
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:23 pm

Re: Bothersome things about Vajrayana and Dzogchen

Postby username » Mon May 02, 2011 6:06 pm

Hi adinatha, no one's judging anyone and ultimately everyone is in change and not even fully known by themselves. Generally speaking in many occasions in history from ancient Greece and India till now, evading points put to one, circular arguing, apparently agreeing with opponents with a final dishonest clause that they are reaffirming one after all, changing subjects in a closed loop as the going gets tough, sophistry, repeating basic slogans with no new input, falsely thinking of oneself as superior and mercurial in method with some humor and more I could mention are quite well known tactics we all sometimes engage in. Ultimately these tactics do not do any good for anyone in the group and we will be even fooling ourselves specially with our intentions. We all sense Enochian is a good guy and currently a Mahayanist and I think he is too honest to set up a spiritual stall and will be fine. BTW I really admire your passion in that post and he has a good friend in you and don't get upset by his last post, he's a good friend in the long run. Also there are many Indian Buddhists doing good work already one can support.
http://www.thebuddhistforum.com/about-u ... forum.html
http://www.thebuddhistforum.com/about-us/our-team.html
Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes

User avatar
adinatha
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:07 am

Re: Bothersome things about Vajrayana and Dzogchen

Postby adinatha » Mon May 02, 2011 6:18 pm

CAW!

User avatar
adinatha
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:07 am

Re: Bothersome things about Vajrayana and Dzogchen

Postby adinatha » Mon May 02, 2011 6:44 pm

CAW!

Enochian
Posts: 364
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:19 pm

Re: Bothersome things about Vajrayana and Dzogchen

Postby Enochian » Mon May 02, 2011 6:51 pm

Namdrol on going to Hell if you break Vajrayana vows

http://www.atikosha.org/2011/04/birthplaces.html


Dalai Lama on OBE:

"Also, a secondary benefit of this dream body is that you can be a perfect spy. "
page 130 Sleeping, Dreaming, and Dying, Dalai Lama
Last edited by Enochian on Tue May 03, 2011 8:22 pm, edited 8 times in total.
There is an ever-present freedom from grasping the mind.

Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.

User avatar
Grigoris
Former staff member
Posts: 14670
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Bothersome things about Vajrayana and Dzogchen

Postby Grigoris » Mon May 02, 2011 9:11 pm

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

username
Posts: 759
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:23 pm

Re: Bothersome things about Vajrayana and Dzogchen

Postby username » Mon May 02, 2011 10:14 pm

Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes

sherabpa
Posts: 110
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:26 pm

Re: Bothersome things about Vajrayana and Dzogchen

Postby sherabpa » Tue May 03, 2011 9:04 pm

This thread reads like a competition to see who is the most unelaborated, or who has the most non-conceptual teaching. Isn't that absurd?

User avatar
kirtu
Former staff member
Posts: 5594
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:29 pm
Location: Baltimore, MD

Re: Bothersome things about Vajrayana and Dzogchen

Postby kirtu » Tue May 03, 2011 9:19 pm



"Even if you practice only for an hour a day with faith and inspiration, good qualities will steadily increase. Regular practice makes it easy to transform your mind. From seeing only relative truth, you will eventually reach a profound certainty in the meaning of absolute truth."
Kyabje Dilgo Khyentse Rinpoche.

"Only you can make your mind beautiful."
HH Chetsang Rinpoche


Return to “Dzogchen”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: conebeckham and 29 guests