Pointing out instructions

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Fa Dao
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Pointing out instructions

Postby Fa Dao » Sun May 01, 2011 2:11 am

Heres a question...
I have read a little about Dzogchen. Only had one teaching on it from a qualified Lama, definitely not an expert though. What is the difference (if any) between pointing out instructions and what is called the "Mind to Mind transmission" found in Chan? Would be nice to get some answers from those who are knowledgeable in both traditions.
"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

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Malcolm
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Re: Pointing out instructions

Postby Malcolm » Sun May 01, 2011 2:19 am





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

username
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Re: Pointing out instructions

Postby username » Sun May 01, 2011 3:31 am

Dzogchen direct introductions' path of self-liberation's fruit and Mahamudra pointing outs' fruit are beyond causality and the transformation path of vajrayana (tantra) but their practice involves vajrayana all the way which is practiced by fully enlightened masters from a Rigpa POV. Both major schools of Cha'an and then the two branches of Zen despite some lower tantric practices are not even considered vajrayana but sutric in essence.
Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes

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Re: Pointing out instructions

Postby Heruka » Sun May 01, 2011 4:16 am

dont forget your kindness, your compassion when telling folk stories to fortify anothers mind about..............

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Re: Pointing out instructions

Postby username » Sun May 01, 2011 4:22 am

Once upon a time in the woods a lost ox looked up at a branch and saw a fully formed garuda chick hatching and immediately flying towards his home...
Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes

Heruka
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Re: Pointing out instructions

Postby Heruka » Sun May 01, 2011 4:30 am


username
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Re: Pointing out instructions

Postby username » Sun May 01, 2011 4:39 am

Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes

Heruka
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Re: Pointing out instructions

Postby Heruka » Sun May 01, 2011 4:48 am


rai
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Re: Pointing out instructions

Postby rai » Sun May 01, 2011 7:57 am

if someone participated in few pointing out transmissions (for general public) but never really get it what is the relationship with the teacher then? is it his root guru anyway?

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heart
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Re: Pointing out instructions

Postby heart » Sun May 01, 2011 8:06 am

"We are all here to help each other go through this thing, whatever it is."
~Kurt Vonnegut

"The principal practice is Guruyoga. But we need to understand that any secondary practice combined with Guruyoga becomes a principal practice." ChNNR (Teachings on Thun and Ganapuja)

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Sönam
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Re: Pointing out instructions

Postby Sönam » Sun May 01, 2011 9:26 am

By understanding everything you perceive from the perspective of the view, you are freed from the constraints of philosophical beliefs.
By understanding that any and all mental activity is meditation, you are freed from arbitrary divisions between formal sessions and postmeditation activity.
- Longchen Rabjam -

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Re: Pointing out instructions

Postby username » Sun May 01, 2011 1:24 pm

Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes

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gnegirl
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Re: Pointing out instructions

Postby gnegirl » Sun May 01, 2011 4:34 pm

:D
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"Things are not what they appear to be: nor are they otherwise." --Surangama Sutra

Phenomenon, vast as space, dharmata is your base, arising and falling like ocean tide cycles, why do i cling to your illusion of unceasing changlessness?

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Re: Pointing out instructions

Postby username » Sun May 01, 2011 4:55 pm

Image
Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes

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adinatha
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Re: Pointing out instructions

Postby adinatha » Sun May 01, 2011 5:54 pm

CAW!

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Re: Pointing out instructions

Postby username » Sun May 01, 2011 6:06 pm

Rigpa is not given away as in a blessing but self discovered after lineage transmission. Also rigpa is beyond all energy, shaktipat or whatever, and even space.
Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes

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adinatha
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Re: Pointing out instructions

Postby adinatha » Sun May 01, 2011 6:10 pm

CAW!

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Re: Pointing out instructions

Postby username » Sun May 01, 2011 6:47 pm

Dzogchen masters I know say: 1)Buddhist religion essence is Dzogchen 2)Religions are positive by intent/fruit 3)Any method's OK unless: breaking Dzogchen vows, mixed as syncretic (Milanese Soup) 4)Don't join mandalas of opponents of Dalai Lama/Padmasambhava: False Deity inventors by encouraging victims 5)Don't debate Ati with others 6)Don't discuss Ati practices online 7) A master told his old disciple: no one's to discuss his teaching with some others on a former forum nor mention him. Publicity's OK, questions are asked from masters/set teachers in person/email/non-public forums~Best wishes

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Malcolm
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Re: Pointing out instructions

Postby Malcolm » Sun May 01, 2011 6:59 pm

Last edited by Malcolm on Sun May 01, 2011 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.




འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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gnegirl
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Location: Waponi Woo

Re: Pointing out instructions

Postby gnegirl » Sun May 01, 2011 7:05 pm

"Things are not what they appear to be: nor are they otherwise." --Surangama Sutra

Phenomenon, vast as space, dharmata is your base, arising and falling like ocean tide cycles, why do i cling to your illusion of unceasing changlessness?


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