Dharma Wheel

A Buddhist discussion forum on Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhism
It is currently Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:36 pm

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Forum rules


Please click here to view the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 125 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 7  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Elements
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:52 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:07 am
Posts: 886
Namdrol wrote:
adinatha wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
Ye shes bla ma is only sufficient to begin practice.


You're a funny guy. This is bullshit. There are oral instructions of Togal even briefer than this.


Yes, for example in Yangzab. As I said, insufficient for perfect understanding.


There's way briefer than that. Perfect understanding comes from practice and checking with the teacher. Books can only help somewhat. The texts maintain the transmission lineage. But when it comes to the nitty gritty it's all pretty bare bones.

_________________
CAW!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Elements
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:19 pm
Posts: 364
.....

_________________
There is an ever-present freedom from grasping the mind.

Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.


Last edited by Enochian on Mon May 16, 2011 10:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Elements
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am
Posts: 12736
***

_________________
http://www.atikosha.org
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://www.sakyapa.net
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

How can you not practice the highest Dharma
at this time of obtaining a perfect human body?

-- Jetsun Dragpa Gyaltsen


Last edited by Malcolm on Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Elements
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:19 pm
Posts: 364
Namdrol wrote:
Reflection, reading and studying the most ancient Dzogchen texts is reflection. It is paramount.

N



So if one does not know Tibetan, one CANNOT practice Dzogchen to completion?

_________________
There is an ever-present freedom from grasping the mind.

Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Elements
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:14 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am
Posts: 12736
Enochian wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
Reflection, reading and studying the most ancient Dzogchen texts is reflection. It is paramount.

N



So if one does not know Tibetan, one CANNOT practice Dzogchen to completion?


One can, but one will not be able to explain Dzogchen to others very well.

N

_________________
http://www.atikosha.org
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://www.sakyapa.net
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

How can you not practice the highest Dharma
at this time of obtaining a perfect human body?

-- Jetsun Dragpa Gyaltsen


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Elements
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:19 pm 
Offline
Former staff member
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Posts: 10289
Location: Greece
Enochian wrote:
So if one does not know Tibetan, one CANNOT practice Dzogchen to completion?
C'mon Enochian, it's high time you got your shit together and found yourself a teacher coz all this questioning of yours means nothing without practice (unless of course you are going to write a thesis about it all). Do yourself a favour: practice practice, practice!
:namaste:

_________________
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:19 pm
Posts: 364
.....

_________________
There is an ever-present freedom from grasping the mind.

Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.


Last edited by Enochian on Mon May 16, 2011 10:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Elements
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am
Posts: 12736
Enochian wrote:
gregkavarnos wrote:
Enochian wrote:
So if one does not know Tibetan, one CANNOT practice Dzogchen to completion?
C'mon Enochian, it's high time you got your shit together and found yourself a teacher coz all this questioning of yours means nothing without practice (unless of course you are going to write a thesis about it all). Do yourself a favour: practice practice, practice!
:namaste:



There are some things that bother me about Vajrayana and Dzogchen.



Do tell.

_________________
http://www.atikosha.org
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://www.sakyapa.net
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

How can you not practice the highest Dharma
at this time of obtaining a perfect human body?

-- Jetsun Dragpa Gyaltsen


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Elements
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:42 pm 
Offline
Former staff member
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Posts: 10289
Location: Greece
This needs a whole new thread!
:namaste:

_________________
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Elements
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:50 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:34 am
Posts: 1069
Enochian wrote:

There are some things that bother me about Vajrayana and Dzogchen.


its counterintuitive anyway, so this is a normal perspective.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Elements
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 6:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:19 pm
Posts: 364
.....

_________________
There is an ever-present freedom from grasping the mind.

Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.


Last edited by Enochian on Mon May 16, 2011 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Elements
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:34 am
Posts: 1069
great stuff!

well done :applause:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Elements
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:03 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am
Posts: 12736
Enochian wrote:
1. One cannot realize rigpa without transmission. That implies Dzogchen is conditioned.



False implication. Rig pa is not the same as the basis. Rig pa is one's knowledge of the basis. That basis is perfectly complete.


Quote:

2. I was working with chakras for my OBE and astral projection practice, before I even heard of "completion stage". You raise energy through your chakras in a trance state, and then you do a exit technique. No bullshit visualizations either, you just use body awareness and FEEL to manipulate the chakras. The chakras are already there, so why visualize? Where do you think you feel your emotions in your physical body?? The chakras.


I am very familiar with WET tradition, particularly the Crowleyan tradition. It is not even remotely the same.

N

_________________
http://www.atikosha.org
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://www.sakyapa.net
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

How can you not practice the highest Dharma
at this time of obtaining a perfect human body?

-- Jetsun Dragpa Gyaltsen


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Elements
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:28 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:07 am
Posts: 886
There were so many illiterate enlightened masters. The studying part is small compared to listening and contemplation. It just seems big when you're stuck in your head.

_________________
CAW!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Elements
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:29 pm 
Offline
Former staff member
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Posts: 10289
Location: Greece
GET A TEACHER! And not necessarily a Vajrayana or Dzogchen teacher.
BEFORE you get yourself into some real trouble! Trouble you will NOT be able to deal with.
:namaste:
PS How can you say this
Quote:
But I realized that western mysticism is a turd sandwhich.
and then adulate OBE? It seems kindda contradictory.

_________________
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE


Last edited by Sherab Dorje on Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Elements
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:33 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 8:19 pm
Posts: 364
...

_________________
There is an ever-present freedom from grasping the mind.

Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.


Last edited by Enochian on Mon May 16, 2011 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Elements
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:34 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am
Posts: 12736
adinatha wrote:
There were so many illiterate enlightened masters. The studying part is small compared to listening and contemplation. It just seems big when you're stuck in your head.



Suit yourself. Just don't bother me with anymore questions. Thanks.

_________________
http://www.atikosha.org
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://www.sakyapa.net
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

How can you not practice the highest Dharma
at this time of obtaining a perfect human body?

-- Jetsun Dragpa Gyaltsen


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Elements
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:35 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:34 am
Posts: 1069
Enochian wrote:
gregkavarnos wrote:
GET A TEACHER! And not necessarily a Vajrayana or Dzogchen teacher.
BEFORE you get yourself into some real trouble! Trouble you will NOT be able to deal with.
:namaste:



To tell me more conditioned INFERIOR METHODS plus samaya?!

LOL

I don't understand why Namdrol thought I was a Crowley follower. Maybe because of my username? I only learned about western mysticism within the last couple of months, and came to the conclusion it was utter crap.



and there i was about to read the five magics....


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Elements
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:38 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am
Posts: 12736
Enochian wrote:
To tell me more conditioned INFERIOR METHODS plus samaya?!



Remind me not to answer your questions either.

N

_________________
http://www.atikosha.org
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://www.sakyapa.net
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

How can you not practice the highest Dharma
at this time of obtaining a perfect human body?

-- Jetsun Dragpa Gyaltsen


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Elements
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2011 7:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:54 pm
Posts: 1850
Namdrol wrote:
Enochian wrote:
To tell me more conditioned INFERIOR METHODS plus samaya?!

Remind me not to answer your questions either.

Well that took you long enough. Longer than you might know even. :rolling:

_________________
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 125 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 7  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Norwegian, qwerty13, Saoshun and 16 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group