Requesting a rundown on Bön

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Requesting a rundown on Bön

Postby Keshin » Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:52 pm

Respected Bönpos,

I would like to know more about Bön's beliefs in a nutshell.

For example, belief in afterlife, nature of the "soul" or True Nature or anything of the sort, if there is a relationship between Dzogchen and Adibuddha, how emptiness is seen, etc.

Is anyone willing to provide such information? I seem to encounter a lot about Bön's historical origins and so on, but not much about its beliefs.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. :smile:
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Re: Requesting a rundown on Bön

Postby Malcolm » Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:27 pm

Keshin wrote:Respected Bönpos,

I would like to know more about Bön's beliefs in a nutshell.

For example, belief in afterlife, nature of the "soul" or True Nature or anything of the sort, if there is a relationship between Dzogchen and Adibuddha, how emptiness is seen, etc.

Is anyone willing to provide such information? I seem to encounter a lot about Bön's historical origins and so on, but not much about its beliefs.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. :smile:



Bon is very similar to Tibetan Buddhism, in many respects, identical i.e. they have equivalents to Mahāyāna, Vajrayāna, Vinaya. They have bodhicitta, creation stage, completion stage, three kāyas, etc.

They assert however the origin of their teachings are 18,000 years old, with the personage of one Tonpa Shenrab, as he is known in Tibetan. They look for their cultural origin not to ancient Tibetan culture -- which originated more or less in Kongpo and moved west into the Yarlung valley, but rather than ancient culture around Kailash known as Zhang Zhung Kingdom which dominated central Tibet, Western Tibet and surrounding regions for many centuries until 7th century C.E.

You can read a book called "Nine Ways of Bon" for an account of Bon teachings by Snellgrove. You can also check several of Samten Karmey's articles and so on.

You also might check out Drung, De'u and Bon by Professor Namkhai Norbu which presents an alternate view of Bon history and its relationship to Tibetan culture.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

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he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

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Re: Requesting a rundown on Bön

Postby kalden yungdrung » Fri Apr 29, 2011 3:26 pm

Keshin wrote:Respected Bönpos,

I would like to know more about Bön's beliefs in a nutshell.

For example, belief in afterlife, nature of the "soul" or True Nature or anything of the sort, if there is a relationship between Dzogchen and Adibuddha, how emptiness is seen, etc.

Is anyone willing to provide such information? I seem to encounter a lot about Bön's historical origins and so on, but not much about its beliefs.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. :smile:


Tashi delek Keshin :smile:

Thanks for your post.


Bön in a nutshell that is too small for such a rich tradition.

But can answer some of your questions.

- Bön has also its Bardo teachings, which differ from the Nyingma Bardo teachings
- Bön knows the human soul called the La which is responsible for the future reincarnation. The La is the boss of the karmic sense conciousnesses.
- Bön knows the true Nature as Natural State and sometimes as Zhi
- Bön knows an Adhi Buddha called Kuntu Zangpo, who is naked and is also seen in Nyingma Dzogchen as the Adhi Buddha.
- Bön knows different kinds of emptiness regarding the philosophical background
- Bön also knows / studies the Madyamaka philosophy due to the proclamation of the Gelug, who made this philosophy under their rulership as the Tibetan standard.
- Bön knows general: Sutra, Tantra and Dzogchen
- Bön has also like Nyingma, 9 ways, the Bön enumeration is total different to the Nyingma enumeration
- Bön has like Dorje Thekpa also a Buddha called Buddha Tenpa Miwoche besides that are there enormous many Buddhas in many realms
- Bön has also Geshes and they study like all other Geshes between the 12 and 14 years
- Bön has its own script named the Zhang Zhung languages
- Bön did know 18 Zhang Zhung kingdoms and 1 main kingdom all situated in western Tibet and all along the silk road
- Bön has also realised persons who did obtain the Rainbow Body
- Bön has 4 cycles of Dzogchen teachings: Zhang Zung Nyengyud, Dzogchen, A Khrid, and Yetri Thasel. They seem to be the main Dzogchen Lineages, so may be there are more, but that is what i do not know. My Teacher did tell it would be more than 4 Dzogchen traditions.......
- Bön does recognise the Buddha Maitreya as a future Buddha
- Bön does also know Bön sarma who is indeed mixed up with many Dorje Thekpa elements and vice versa.


Have a break. There is more, but these are the general outlines regarding some Bön topics.



Best wishes for our daily practice

Mutsig Marro
Kalden Yungdrung
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HE RESEMBLES THE BLIND MAN
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Re: Requesting a rundown on Bön

Postby adinatha » Sat Apr 30, 2011 1:11 am

How Bon came to resemble Nyingma so closely (and yet both claim independent derivation) is absolutely mysterious to me. Why would Bonpos what to attain "buddhahood"? Trip out man.
CAW!
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Re: Requesting a rundown on Bön

Postby kalden yungdrung » Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:56 am

adinatha wrote:How Bon came to resemble Nyingma so closely (and yet both claim independent derivation) is absolutely mysterious to me. Why would Bonpos what to attain "buddhahood"? Trip out man.


Tashi delek Adhinath, :smile:

Thanks for your question e,g, post.

Bon and Nyingma resemble at one point very much, because both have a Dzogchen tradition.
Nyingma Dzogchen goes back to India to their Dzogchen Master Garab Dorje / Prahevajra. Many Bonpos like very much the Nyingmapa Master Longchen Rabjyampa. Further the Bon Master Vairochana and Drenpa Namkha, who were converted to Indian Buddhism. Last mentioned were Bonpos but did convert themselves to Indian Buddhism because they did intended to practice in scret Bon, because otherwise they would be punished etc. We know that Bon was persecuted for their belief and many could make a choice to survive ....... Many Drikung or Drukpa Kagyus were at those times converted Bonpos. Know not certain if they did belong to Drikung or Drukpa Kagyu.



Bon Dzogchen goes back to Zhang Zhung and their lineage holders are:
Here the mind to mind Transmission beyond words passed through the 9 bder gshegs / Dersheg Buddhas.

1. Yenyi Tonpa - Bonsku Kuntu Zangpo
2. Thugjei Tonpa - Dzogsku Shenla Okar
3. Trulpai Tonpa - Shenrab Chenpo
4. Rigpai Tonpa - Tseme Oden
5. Trulshen Nagden
6. Barnang Khuijog
7. Zangza Ringstun - Sherab Jamma
8. Chimey Tsogpu
9. Sangwa Dupa

Bon sku ,Trulku and Dzog sku Dersheg Buddhas represent the 3 aspects of Buddha Tonpa Shenrab Miwoche e.g. the Buddha of the Bonpos.

Bonpos do practice Sutra, Tantra and Dzogchen and accordingly they reach here "their" enlightenment.
One can see these as the 3 doors to reach enlightenment. Yes all roads can lead to enlightenment but here counts the (endless) duration. Everybody who opens the specific door enters the same space. What did count was only the long or short time to reach that specific door, due to our kind of practice.
Dzogchen offers as only way to reach enlightenment at this life time in comparisation to Sutra and Tantra.
Further should not we forget that our mind is unborn and cannot die, so because of this, time is not counting here, some beings wander endless / timeless round in Samsara because they do not know their unborn inherent Mind or the first Mind or in Dzogchen their Natural State.

Natural State is in other traditions known as Sugatagarbha, Bodhicitta.But we mean in fact the same quality here. Some do need development like in the Sutric way whereas in Dzogchen one does about the same entity the practice without developping, because the Natural State is here 100% Clear, with Radiance and Awareness. So here is no polution seen which has to be transformed like in Tantra, or to be balanced with + karma like in the Sutric way and when this karma is seen/experienced, then we experience in Dzogchen, only the karmic poluted thoughts which Dzogchenpas let go / return to where they came from namely out of Emptiness, without paying attention to them.

Best wishes for our daily practice
Kalden Yungdrung
Last edited by kalden yungdrung on Sat Apr 30, 2011 9:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Requesting a rundown on Bön

Postby Keshin » Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:12 am

kalden yungdrung wrote:Bön has also its Bardo teachings, which differ from the Nyingma Bardo teachings
- Bön knows the human soul called the La which is responsible for the future reincarnation. The La is the boss of the karmic sense conciousnesses.
- Bön knows the true Nature as Natural State and sometimes as Zhi

May I ask the difference between the true Nature and the La, is there one? Also, what kind of consciousness is meant? Alayavijnana? Or some other kind?

- Bön knows an Adhi Buddha called Kuntu Zangpo, who is naked and is also seen in Nyingma Dzogchen as the Adhi Buddha.

Do you think Kuntu Zangpo could be called as 'God', (although not a Christian-style God)? If no, what do you think the differences are?

- Bön knows different kinds of emptiness regarding the philosophical background

Is this like Shentong and Rangtong?



Best wishes for our daily practice

What are the daily practices of a Bönpo?



Sorry to ask so many questions, but I am genuinely curious. :)
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Re: Requesting a rundown on Bön

Postby kalden yungdrung » Sat Apr 30, 2011 8:32 am


Tashi delek Keshin,

Thanks for your reply / questions.
Will reply between the lines

Best wishes with your study
Kalden Yungdrung



Keshin wrote:

May I ask the difference between the true Nature and the La, is there one? Also, what kind of consciousness is meant? Alayavijnana? Or some other kind?
The True Nature is not karmicly whereas the La is based on karma.

Do you think Kuntu Zangpo could be called as 'God', (although not a Christian-style God)? If no, what do you think the differences are?
Kuntu Zangpo is the one who never did make the mistake to experience the outer world as different. A God is according Buddhism based on karmic deeds. Because of deeds one can become a God which is seen in Buddhism as running round in Samsara e.g. not liberated from Samsara.

Is this like Shentong and Rangtong?
Emptiness in Bon without clearness, radiance and awareness then it is like the emptiness where the stars are dwelling in.
The same emptiness where the stars are dwelling in + clearness , radiance and awareness that is our Natural State.


What are the daily practices of a Bönpo?
Depends if you practice Sutra, Tantra or Dzogchen.
Every Bonpo does the preliminaries. The preliminaries in Dzogchen differ from the aforementioned Sutra and Tantra traditions.
Further do we all practice Compassion and Wisdom to benefit all sentient beings. This because all Buddhas bear in mind Compassion.
No Buddha can become a Buddha without to fullfill the meaning of Compassion.

One story tells us, which i did read a long time ago, that when the Buddha Shakyamuni did dwell in the 4th realm of Brahma or was in the utmost state of dyana, he was attended by ohter Buddha(s) that being there was not the meaning of being a Buddha, because in those 4 heavens of Brahma one cannot serve the sentient beings. The 4 heavens of Brahma are formless and there does exist nearly nothing and the mind is reduced to a blank state of conciousness without radiance, awareness and clearness. These 4 realms cannot be destroyed by the Cosmic winds and water.
THOUGH A MAN BE LEARNED
IF HE DOES NOT APPLY HIS KNOWLEDGE
HE RESEMBLES THE BLIND MAN
WHO WITH A LAMP IN THE HAND CANNOT SEE THE ROAD
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Re: Requesting a rundown on Bön

Postby Keshin » Sun May 01, 2011 3:08 pm

Tashi delek Kalden Yungdrung :smile:


kalden yungdrung wrote:The True Nature is not karmicly whereas the La is based on karma.

So would you say the True Nature is the "True La"? Does the La disappear upon freeing oneself from the cycle of birth and death? Would you say that the True Nature is the same as Kuntu Zangpo?


Kuntu Zangpo is the one who never did make the mistake to experience the outer world as different. A God is according Buddhism based on karmic deeds. Because of deeds one can become a God which is seen in Buddhism as running round in Samsara e.g. not liberated from Samsara.

I understand :) But I mean, as a "God" as in an Absolute (such as panentheism), but not deva/lha-god. Does this clarify my question?


Every Bonpo does the preliminaries.

May I ask what the preliminaries are? For example, wake up, take bath, chant, etc - what does every Bonpo do daily for his or her faith?

These 4 realms cannot be destroyed by the Cosmic winds and water.

Could you please expand upon this? :smile:


If there are any questions you do not wish to tell me, please feel free to ignore me or tell me you do not wish to answer any more questions. :smile: I am, however, very grateful to hear more.

:namaste:
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Re: Requesting a rundown on Bön

Postby kalden yungdrung » Thu May 05, 2011 8:05 am

Tashi delek Keshin :)

Thanks for your post.
Sorry for my delay, was very busy inside our Lha Kang.
Will answer between the lines in blue

Best wishes for our daily practice
Kalden Yungdrung


kalden yungdrung wrote:
The True Nature is not karmicly whereas the La is based on karma.
Keshin asked:
So would you say the True Nature is the "True La"? Does the La disappear upon freeing oneself from the cycle of birth and death? Would you say that the True Nature is the same as Kuntu Zangpo?
kalden yungdrung wrote:
The true Nature is the Natural State which we own but are not aware of it. This is called ignorance or Ma Rigpa / Avidya.
To act with the karmic mind of traces are = our daily thoughts which are based on the store conciousness or Alaya Vinjana / Kun Zhi nams shes, this is in Bon called the La who is acting. The La disappears but the stored deeds reincarnate with the related body. Yes the true Nature is Kuntu Zangpo, because He is the Dharmakaya aspect.


kalden yungdrung wrote:
Kuntu Zangpo is the one who never did make the mistake to experience the outer world as different. A God is according Buddhism based on karmic deeds.
Keshin asked:
Because of deeds one can become a God which is seen in Buddhism as running round in Samsara e.g. not liberated from Samsara.
I understand But I mean, as a "God" as in an Absolute (such as panentheism), but not deva/lha-god. Does this clarify my question?
kalden yungdrung wrote:
Buddhism know some light Gods who dwell in the realm of the 33. These are very high ranked Gods but also here do the Buddhas teach the Dharma. That means also they need teachings because they do not know. So in Buddhism there is no karmic absolute being.


kalden yungdrung wrote:
Every Bonpo does the preliminaries.
Keshin asked:
May I ask what the preliminaries are? For example, wake up, take bath, chant, etc - what does every Bonpo do daily for his or her faith?
kalden yungdrung wrote:
Preliminaries are in Bon like also in other Tibetan traditions: Guru Yoga, Mandala offfering, Prosternations for our Tree of Refuge, and purifying our karma, all 100.000 times Then we have the 4 thoughts like about the precious human body and the 10 wholesome deeds which come first.
Every Bonpo does according his/her level of understanding: Sutra as the base, the Yidam and Dzogchen or Sutra then Tantra and then Dzogchen as the sequential / gradual steps.


kalden yungdrung wrote:
These 4 realms cannot be destroyed by the Cosmic winds and water.
Keshin asked:
Could you please expand upon this?
kalden yungdrung wrote:
These realms are based on emptiness where nothing like matter does exist. The mind in its blank state like Trekchod without Thodgal can assume such a blank state. These states cannot be influenced by the elements like water and fire.


Keshin asked:
If there are any questions you do not wish to tell me, please feel free to ignore me or tell me you do not wish to answer any more questions. I am, however, very grateful to hear more.
kalden yungdrung wrote:
All your questions can be answered no problem at all, you are welcome.
THOUGH A MAN BE LEARNED
IF HE DOES NOT APPLY HIS KNOWLEDGE
HE RESEMBLES THE BLIND MAN
WHO WITH A LAMP IN THE HAND CANNOT SEE THE ROAD
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