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Shootings at Ft Hood, Texas - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

Shootings at Ft Hood, Texas

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
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christopher:::
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Re: Shootings at Ft Hood, Texas

Postby christopher::: » Sun Nov 08, 2009 12:53 am

"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009

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pink_trike
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Re: Shootings at Ft Hood, Texas

Postby pink_trike » Sun Nov 08, 2009 2:03 am

The umbrella mental formation known as "religion" creates conditions of mind that very frequently give rise to all sorts of negative beliefs and behaviors, but it is taboo in our religion-obsessed culture to critically examine this meta-level mental formation. It casts a large dark shadow that is ignored by those who stand under its umbrella.
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

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Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

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christopher:::
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Re: Shootings at Ft Hood, Texas

Postby christopher::: » Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:46 am

Hi pink trike,

Well, i agree on some points. We do have various cultural taboos which need to be brought into the light of attention. And there are cohesive belief formations held by groups that are branded "religious" which give rise to shared identity and values. These group-specific beliefs help members determine right from wrong, acceptable from nonacceptable/taboo.

But religion is just one way of creating identity, one umbrella for a cultural set of beliefs and values. It's not the sole mechanism at work. The Chinese have done violence to Tibetans in the name of Communism and a nationalistic sense of identity. Organized gangs like the yakuza in Japan, or druglords in Colombia have their own specific subcultures & social norms- defining acceptable/unacceptable group-level values, beliefs and behaviors.

In the U.S. (and in various countries around the world) many who identify themselves as Muslim tend to emphasize the nonviolent teachings of Islam. If you read the comments of Osman Danquah in that article I just shared he seems to identify most strongly with the U.S. Army, as the group to which he and Hasan should have loyalty.

Hasan's identification with extremist Muslim views and beliefs is not the norm in the United States, though it might be more common in other nations. In the U.S. my sense is that nationalistic identification has a stronger correlation with acceptance and promotion of military values then does identification with the umbrella notion of religion.

It's very much worth examining and discussing these meta-level cultural factors though, I do agree with you there.
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009

adamposey
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Re: Shootings at Ft Hood, Texas

Postby adamposey » Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:57 am

It this man was a Christian we would not be having this conversation. He would just be called out of his mind, and that would be that. I am disappointed in the news media, and disappointed in my fellow Americans that they have allowed this to impact the American muslim community the way it has, and the way it will.

A white, christian, man can drive a car full of explosives into a garage, and declare he did it for God, and no one would dare even include his religion in his rationale. It's just so disappointing to watch this go on. I have nothing but the greatest sympathy for Muslim Americans right now.

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pink_trike
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Re: Shootings at Ft Hood, Texas

Postby pink_trike » Sun Nov 08, 2009 6:30 am

Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

notself
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Re: Shootings at Ft Hood, Texas

Postby notself » Sun Nov 08, 2009 6:32 am

I agree. No one started beating up Irish when Timothy McVeigh blew up the Alfred P. Murrah Building in Oklahoma City. The Irish Republican Army was a terrorist organization at that time. No news reporters suggested a link between McVeigh and the IRA.
Though one may conquer a thousand times a thousand men in battle, yet he is indeed the noblest victor who conquers himself. ---Dhp 103

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pink_trike
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Re: Shootings at Ft Hood, Texas

Postby pink_trike » Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:50 am

Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

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christopher:::
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Re: Shootings at Ft Hood, Texas

Postby christopher::: » Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:14 am

Well, I think there are a number reasons for our difficulty. First, for Americans especially, if we start to dig more deeply into this we'll have to confront the "umbrella" culture of militarism. This is the condoning of violence, for means of defense and vengence, against strangers in foreign lands. It's not a religious dynamic, but has deep roots. It means we have to question nationalism, which is probably as much a taboo as confronting religious identification.

Down thru the ages religion has indeed been a carrier of violence condoning memes, of militarism and vengence seeking. But within most religious traditions there exist very specific "antidotes" to this tendency for violence that we speak of. Islam teaches peace and compassion, as did Jesus, and the Buddha.

So religion is *not* the underlying root cause or problem, imo. When people from various religious traditions support violence their minds have been hijacked by dualistic beliefs and hatred, mutations of values which do not usually reflect the peaceful intentions and views of their founders...
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009

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pink_trike
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Re: Shootings at Ft Hood, Texas

Postby pink_trike » Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:21 am

Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

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christopher:::
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Re: Shootings at Ft Hood, Texas

Postby christopher::: » Sun Nov 08, 2009 10:06 am

"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009

adamposey
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Re: Shootings at Ft Hood, Texas

Postby adamposey » Sun Nov 08, 2009 2:49 pm

If this man were a buddhist all of us would be lumped in with him. I'm disgusted at the news media for their allowance of this behavior by their reporters and commentators. This is just so frustrating, there's not a single popular world religion that condones this kind of violence.

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David N. Snyder
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Re: Shootings at Ft Hood, Texas

Postby David N. Snyder » Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:07 pm

I wonder if there is a way to blend the two views expressed here and probably other places? There is the pc view that religion has nothing to do with it and there is the other view that religion has everything to do with it.

I wonder if it would be acceptable for both sides to meld together and say that at least one of the factors was religious zealotry run amok. That is religious fundamentalism, which is actually a corrupted version of their religion, not the true teachings of the prophet (peace be upon him). Seen in this way, religion can be seen as a factor, but when taken or interpreted in the wrong way.

For example, in the instances that involved Christian violent actions, such as the IRA, the attacks on abortion doctors, etc., clearly their religious zealotry was at work. But was that the teachings of Christ? Of course not, from what I have read in the New Testament. But the teachings in all religions get twisted and corrupted, usually from fundamentalism or zealotry gone too far.

Another example: When I lived in Israel, the very orthodox religious Jews were upset that some Jews drove cars and worked on the Sabbath (Saturday). The religious Jews will not even turn on an electric switch during the sabbath. They turn on all lights (except bedroom) before the sabbath starts and they stay on all day long. They will not turn on a stove or do the slightest bit of work other than praying. This is how strict they observe the sabbath. But at one period of time, in their anger they reacted to the non-religious Jews who were driving on the sabbath by throwing stones at their cars (on the sabbath). In at least one occasion they installed a wire from one post to another going across the street so that a motorcyclists' head would be severed driving down that road. All of these actions are work related, setting up these devices and throwing stones, but in their zealotry, felt they were doing the right thing.
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pink_trike
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Re: Shootings at Ft Hood, Texas

Postby pink_trike » Sun Nov 08, 2009 7:27 pm

I'm not saying that religion is the sole motivation when acts of violence are done in its name. I'm just suggesting that as a society we would benefit by closely acknowledging and examining this particular meta-level filter...it is taboo in our culture to step back and deconstruct this filter and the negative effects that lurk in its unexamined shadow. There are many unconscious filters that we have trouble seeing and deconstructing...for example, wealthy people often can't see their filter of class, poor people often can't see their poverty mentality filter, heterosexual people often can't see their filter of heterosexuality, gay people often can't see their gay filter, political people often can't see the political filter, and religious people often can't see the religion filter. The Dharma teaches us to see through and dissolve all filters, but in our hyper-religious culture it is very rare that the filter of religion is even acknowledged let alone deconstructed or dissolved. When a filter is clung to too tightly and held to be too precious to examine critically - to the point of not even being consciously aware that it is a filter, its shadow becomes dangerous. Its true that most religions incorporate some way of containing violence, but unacknowledged is that its very structure and mechanics also create the conditions for dissatisfaction, mental illness, and violence.

"In all affairs it's a healthy thing now and then to hang a question mark on the things you have long taken for granted."
- Bertrand Russell
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

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Lampang
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Re: Shootings at Ft Hood, Texas

Postby Lampang » Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:29 am

Mass murder is surely as American as apple pie so why does his action become some cipher for Islam, rather than a straight-forward instance of problem-solving in a pathologically violent society?

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pink_trike
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Re: Shootings at Ft Hood, Texas

Postby pink_trike » Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:49 am

Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

adamposey
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Re: Shootings at Ft Hood, Texas

Postby adamposey » Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:14 am


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christopher:::
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Re: Shootings at Ft Hood, Texas

Postby christopher::: » Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:35 am

Looks like Fox News is keeping a close watch on this story... and have promised to stay alert to the new Muslim terrorist threat "within," in order to protect Americans...



In line with David's points, is there a middle ground, of awareness/compassion, that we can move towards? Where we don't turn away from being critical of religious groups that promote violence, but at the same time don't point our fingers of blame at specific religions, or all religions, as being the cause of all this?

Dig in deep, examine why violence is such a part of various cultures.

Find a middle way, a wise way, with both eyes and hearts open...

Will the gun lobby allow this to be attempted?

:hug: :jedi:
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009

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Ben
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Re: Shootings at Ft Hood, Texas

Postby Ben » Mon Nov 09, 2009 6:09 am

My heart goes out to all who are suffering as a result of this tragedy.
May wisdom, peace and compassion prevail.
May all those who suffer be soothed by the balm of metta and karuna and find liberation from samsara.
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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Thales
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Re: Shootings at Ft Hood, Texas

Postby Thales » Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:20 am

"Just as the ocean has a single taste, the taste of salt, so this Dhamma and Discipline has a single taste, the taste of release."

~Ud 5.5

PeterB
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Re: Shootings at Ft Hood, Texas

Postby PeterB » Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:44 am

'For a succinct and very penetrating analysis of this situation I would recommend a look at Gregory Wonderwheel's view of this incident On Zen Forum International under a heading which starts "shootings ".


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