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 Post subject: Re: Moving on
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 3:32 pm 
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TMingyur wrote:
Tilopa wrote:
Are you going or not? :shrug:


Why go?


Kind regards

Because now your just a trolling disruption.
And actually have been for quite some time.


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 Post subject: Re: Moving on
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 5:32 am 
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Nangwa wrote:
TMingyur wrote:
Tilopa wrote:
Are you going or not? :shrug:


Why go?


Kind regards

Because now your just a trolling disruption.
And actually have been for quite some time.


Sorry if my experience disrupts you. I have decided to write in the personal experience section so that others might perhaps be released from the urge to defend tenets and refrain from attacks.

You may want to avoid sight contact with the written?

Kind regards


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 Post subject: Re: Moving on
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:37 pm 
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It never seizes to amaze me how some people become hostile towards a person who is leaving a group for whatever reason, but religion especially. TMinger is on a journey. It is okay to leave. When I read some of these posts it makes me realize why some teachers say to leave quietly. That way no one gets hurt; especially the person leaving.


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 Post subject: Re: Moving on
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 2:35 pm 
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TMingyur wrote:

Sorry if my experience disrupts you. I have decided to write in the personal experience section so that others might perhaps be released from the urge to defend tenets and refrain from attacks.

You may want to avoid sight contact with the written?

Kind regards

I'm not disrupted. You are disruptive.
There is a difference.
You have posted in the personal experience forum because you know that if you created these threads anywhere else they would be removed.
Your intention is still the same, to inflame others and draw attention to yourself.


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 Post subject: Re: Moving on
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:43 pm 
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Urgyen Chodron wrote:
It never seizes to amaze me how some people become hostile towards a person who is leaving a group for whatever reason, but religion especially. TMinger is on a journey. It is okay to leave. When I read some of these posts it makes me realize why some teachers say to leave quietly. That way no one gets hurt; especially the person leaving.

That's a pretty common tendency, just not one that I see in this thread.
To me it makes no difference whether someone practice Vajrayana, Mahayana or Theravada. I don't think there's even a "leaving" if one changes from one school to another. Just an adaptation to a more suitable path according to personal needs.
If you ask me if I feel sad when seeing someone abandoning Dharma, my answer would be a big yes. If it makes me mad, the answer would be a big no. Just sad. But here, if I understood correctly, TMingyur isn't planing on leaving Dharma at all, so not even sadness applies. I don't even know what he's planning, if anything than simply drawing attention to himself! :rolling:


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 Post subject: Re: Moving on
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 5:13 pm 
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My feeling is to not judge one no matter what a person is doing. We really don't know one way or another what his motives are. Saddens me when Buddhists do what they have done to TMinger. Patience is always in order. Thanks for your post.


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 Post subject: Re: Moving on
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 5:21 pm 
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Urgyen Chodron wrote:
Saddens me when Buddhists do what they have done to TMinger.


What have we done to TMingyur? :shrug:

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    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu


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 Post subject: Re: Moving on
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 5:26 pm 
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Urgyen Chodron wrote:
Saddens me when Buddhists do what they have done to TMinger. Patience is always in order.


I appreciate your kindness. But from my perspective all is okay, nobody hurt me. Please do not get involved in this too much.


Kind regards


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 Post subject: Re: Moving on
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 5:44 pm 
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but is this not the trojan horse intent, or maybe its more of a stockholm syndrome?

I dont know.

no one asked you to leave, nor is anyone begging you to stay...

your obviously suffering.


be well.

:meditate:


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 Post subject: Re: Moving on
PostPosted: Sun Apr 24, 2011 6:06 pm 
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Heruka wrote:
your obviously suffering.


It is said that cessation happens on 8th bhumi or arhantship.

However temporarily one can get rid of it (or at least of its gross appearances) quite successfully.

Kind regards


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 Post subject: Re: Moving on
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 12:33 am 
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Urgyen Chodron wrote:
My feeling is to not judge one no matter what a person is doing. We really don't know one way or another what his motives are. Saddens me when Buddhists do what they have done to TMinger. Patience is always in order. Thanks for your post.

:o


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 Post subject: Re: Moving on
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:36 am 
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TMingyur made it clear he's not forsaking the Dharma, y'all...he's just given up on the Tibetan presentations of tenets. This is no big deal. I gotta say, it does appear that a lot of folks are "threatened" when statements like this are made.....and the ensuing drama becomes personal, and ad hominem attacks ensue.

I have trouble understanding what TMingyur says sometimes, because he refuses to use our "conventional Dharma language," and also he's somewhat terse and cryptic...but I don't think he's merely a troll, honestly. You may all think otherwise. And I may be proved wrong, too. I dunno.

Let's remember, all views and frameworks are imperfect by nature. Including those views that claim there's no sense talking about views.

Hey, TMingyur, I'd like you to address Namdrol's "cart before the horse" comment.

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 Post subject: Re: Moving on
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:47 am 
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conebeckham wrote:
Hey, TMingyur, I'd like you to address Namdrol's "cart before the horse" comment.


Okay, first the context:

TMingyur wrote:
Craving actually is no joke ... it is the root of all misery ... clinging aggregates are the root of clinging to views and tenets ... from my "personal experience" perspective the Buddha was right.

Namdrol wrote:
No, the root of clinging to views and tenets is the the mistaken imputation of identity. That mistaken imputation is the cause of addiction to the aggregates.

Namdrol wrote:
TMingyur wrote:
It is the clinging aggregates (clinging self-referentially to themselves) that manifest as the deluded sub-conceptual identification "I" and "mine" in the context of these process-like phenomena (i.e. the aggregates). Active conceptual imputation thinking "I" and "mine" only is the peak of this sub-conceptual ("intuitive") error.


You have the cart before the horse.


The starting point was "clinging to views and tenets".

There is the error of not-knowing the arising of view (thought qua terms and thought qua meaning) actually being the arising of the aggregates in the aftermath of contacting habitual thought and meaning in its seed form (sankhara) - unwise attention being the prerequisite; feeling arises merging with thought accompanyed by the arising of clinging and further fabrication; through this self-amplifying circuit (contact, feeling, clinging, additional fabrication) full-fledged concepts (ready to be verbalized) develop being a merge of label, meaning, feeling and clinging which is developing via appropriation or self-identification into an "object" of "mine", "this is my view", "this I am", the knowing that this merge is just the habitual display of experience presenting itself to itself impulsively in the first place being totally absent.

Kind regards


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 Post subject: Re: Moving on
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:20 am 
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TMingyur seems like one of those people who think that Theravada is the authentic teaching of the Buddha, when in reality Theravada is derailed by Abhidharma.

Theravadin abhidharma derailed Shakyamuni's message which had to be restored by Mahayana's Mādhyamaka (which forms the basis of Vajrayana).

So Theravada is NOT exactly the authentic message of the Buddha but Mādhyamaka is.

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There is an ever-present freedom from grasping the mind.

Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.


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 Post subject: Re: Moving on
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:24 am 
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Enochian wrote:
TMingyur seems like one of those people who think that Theravada is the authentic teaching of the Buddha, when in reality Theravada is derailed by Abhidharma.

Theravadin abhidharma derailed Shakyamuni's message which had to be restored by Mahayana's Mādhyamaka (which forms the basis of Vajrayana).

So Theravada is NOT exactly the authentic message of the Buddha.


No need to slip into advocating of partisanship. Neither Theravada nor Tibetan Buddhism.

Kind regards


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 Post subject: Re: Moving on
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:26 am 
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TMingyur wrote:
Enochian wrote:
TMingyur seems like one of those people who think that Theravada is the authentic teaching of the Buddha, when in reality Theravada is derailed by Abhidharma.

Theravadin abhidharma derailed Shakyamuni's message which had to be restored by Mahayana's Mādhyamaka (which forms the basis of Vajrayana).

So Theravada is NOT exactly the authentic message of the Buddha.


No need to slip into advocation of partisanship. Neither Theravada nor Tibetan Buddhism.

Kind regards



Its not partisanship. Its truth. Theravada is derailed by abhidharma (which has no real basis in the Pali Canon) which led to Nagarjuna's restoration.

_________________
There is an ever-present freedom from grasping the mind.

Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.


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 Post subject: Re: Moving on
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 4:27 am 
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TMingyur wrote:
No need to slip into advocating of partisanship. Neither Theravada nor Tibetan Buddhism.



Tibetan buddhism has helped me very much. But if I ever get involved with Tibetan Buddhism again I will be losing all the help I have received.

Theravada has helped me very much. But if I ever get involved with Theravada I will be losing all the help I have received.


Kind regards


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 Post subject: Re: Moving on
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:01 am 
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Seriously TM, what do you get out of all the banter here?
Are you closer to Liberation or of better benefit to all around you?

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 Post subject: Re: Moving on
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 6:14 am 
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plwk wrote:
Seriously TM, what do you get out of all the banter here?

Practice.

plwk wrote:
Are you ... of better benefit to all around you?

That depends on the "all around" me. Beyond my influence and control and intention.

Kind regards


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 Post subject: Re: Moving on
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 8:07 am 
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Quote:
SN 12.2
Paticca-samuppada-vibhanga Sutta: Analysis of Dependent Co-arising
translated from the Pali by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Dwelling at Savatthi... "Monks, I will describe & analyze dependent co-arising for you.

"And what is dependent co-arising? From ignorance as a requisite condition come fabrications. From fabrications as a requisite condition comes consciousness. From consciousness as a requisite condition comes name-&-form. From name-&-form as a requisite condition come the six sense media. From the six sense media as a requisite condition comes contact. From contact as a requisite condition comes feeling. From feeling as a requisite condition comes craving. From craving as a requisite condition comes clinging/sustenance. From clinging/sustenance as a requisite condition comes becoming. From becoming as a requisite condition comes birth. From birth as a requisite condition, then aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair come into play. Such is the origination of this entire mass of stress & suffering.

"Now what is aging and death? Whatever aging, decrepitude, brokenness, graying, wrinkling, decline of life-force, weakening of the faculties of the various beings in this or that group of beings, that is called aging. Whatever deceasing, passing away, breaking up, disappearance, dying, death, completion of time, break up of the aggregates, casting off of the body, interruption in the life faculty of the various beings in this or that group of beings, that is called death.

"And what is birth? Whatever birth, taking birth, descent, coming-to-be, coming-forth, appearance of aggregates, & acquisition of [sense] media of the various beings in this or that group of beings, that is called birth.

"And what is becoming? These three are becomings: sensual becoming, form becoming, & formless becoming. This is called becoming.

"And what is clinging/sustenance? These four are clingings: sensuality clinging, view clinging, precept & practice clinging, and doctrine of self clinging. This is called clinging.

"And what is craving? These six are classes of craving: craving for forms, craving for sounds, craving for smells, craving for tastes, craving for tactile sensations, craving for ideas. This is called craving.

"And what is feeling? These six are classes of feeling: feeling born from eye-contact, feeling born from ear-contact, feeling born from nose-contact, feeling born from tongue-contact, feeling born from body-contact, feeling born from intellect-contact. This is called feeling.

"And what is contact? These six are classes of contact: eye-contact, ear-contact, nose-contact, tongue-contact, body-contact, intellect-contact. This is called contact.

"And what are the six sense media? These six are sense media: the eye-medium, the ear-medium, the nose-medium, the tongue-medium, the body-medium, the intellect-medium. These are called the six sense media.

"And what is name-&-form? Feeling, perception, intention, contact, & attention: This is called name. The four great elements, and the form dependent on the four great elements: This is called form. This name & this form are called name-&-form.

"And what is consciousness? These six are classes of consciousness: eye-consciousness, ear-consciousness, nose-consciousness, tongue-consciousness, body-consciousness, intellect-consciousness. This is called consciousness.

"And what are fabrications? These three are fabrications: bodily fabrications, verbal fabrications, mental fabrications. These are called fabrications.

"And what is ignorance? Not knowing stress, not knowing the origination of stress, not knowing the cessation of stress, not knowing the way of practice leading to the cessation of stress: This is called ignorance.

"Now from the remainderless fading & cessation of that very ignorance comes the cessation of fabrications. From the cessation of fabrications comes the cessation of consciousness. From the cessation of consciousness comes the cessation of name-&-form. From the cessation of name-&-form comes the cessation of the six sense media. From the cessation of the six sense media comes the cessation of contact. From the cessation of contact comes the cessation of feeling. From the cessation of feeling comes the cessation of craving. From the cessation of craving comes the cessation of clinging/sustenance. From the cessation of clinging/sustenance comes the cessation of becoming. From the cessation of becoming comes the cessation of birth. From the cessation of birth, then aging & death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, distress, & despair all cease. Such is the cessation of this entire mass of stress & suffering."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

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Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE


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