The Banning of Bardor Tulku Rinpoche

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Re: The Banning of Bardor Tulku Rinpoche

Postby Caz » Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:35 am

Hmmm a banned teacher, Schism in the sangha. Gee seems this little peice of karma likes to repeat itself in all sects. :thinking:
Abandoning Dharma is, in the final analysis, disparaging the Hinayana because of the Mahayana; favoring the Hinayana on account of the Mahayana; playing off sutra against tantra; playing off the four classes of the tantras against each other; favoring one of the Tibetan schools—the Sakya, Gelug, Kagyu, or Nyingma—and disparaging the rest; and so on. In other words, we abandon Dharma any time we favor our own tenets and disparage the rest.

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Re: The Banning of Bardor Tulku Rinpoche

Postby justsit » Tue Apr 05, 2011 12:55 pm

Hardly a schism, more like a family feud. Bardor Tulku is teaching in his own center, KTD is still operating, both are authorized by HH 17th Karmapa OTD. Painful but not fatal.
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Re: The Banning of Bardor Tulku Rinpoche

Postby vajraheart » Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:27 pm

yawn.
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Re: The Banning of Bardor Tulku Rinpoche

Postby Heruka » Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:01 pm

justsit wrote:Hardly a schism, more like a family feud. Bardor Tulku is teaching in his own center, KTD is still operating, both are authorized by HH 17th Karmapa OTD. Painful but not fatal.



really just another sapling bud, branch on the refuge tree. :namaste:
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Re: The Banning of Bardor Tulku Rinpoche

Postby Jangchup Donden » Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:30 pm

Heruka wrote:
justsit wrote:Hardly a schism, more like a family feud. Bardor Tulku is teaching in his own center, KTD is still operating, both are authorized by HH 17th Karmapa OTD. Painful but not fatal.



really just another sapling bud, branch on the refuge tree. :namaste:


Well, the lineage of Barway Dorje goes back to Nupchen Sangye Yeshe and Yeshe Tsogyal; and he is also one of the primary holders of the Barom Kagyu lineage -- so maybe a little more than a sapling bud. :P

Even so, I have a feeling this issue will perhaps be resolved in the future. Bardor Tulku Rinpoche really follows the rimé philosophy (as did the other incarnations of Barway Dorje), while the current powers that be at KTD aren't quite so non-sectarian (as I guess they feel that the Karma Kagyu needs to be protected from outside influence). I have a feeling HH Karmapa is more non-sectarian than the people running KTD at the moment.

Bardor Tulku Rinpoche recently wrote a statement about his vision for Kunzang Palchen Ling (http://kunzang.org/assets/home/btr-vision.pdf) which I think is fantastic:

VISION OF BARDOR TULKU RINPOCHE CONCERNING KUNZANG PALCHEN LING
Dear Friends and Students,
In accordance with the wish of my supreme root guru the 16th Gyalwang Karmapa, Rangjung Rikpe Dorje, to disseminate the Dharma in general and transmission of the Barway Dorje lineages in particular, I have taken steps to establish Kunzang Palchen Ling as a center of teachings and practice open to all schools of Buddhadharma.
In order to accommodate the request of my students and to guide those involved in the meritorious conduct of building Kunzang Palchen Ling, I would like to detail my vision concerning the facilities and activities of Kunzang Palchen Ling in the future.
It is my wish that in the future Kunzang Palchen Ling should:
• Possess a non-sectarian regard for all Dharma teachings and have visiting teachers who have maintained samaya from all schools and traditions of Buddhist practice
• Have a large shrine with a large Buddha statue surrounded by statues of the 8 great bodhisattvas and 16 arhats, as well as pecha copies of the Kangyur and Tengyur for Dharma teachings and assembly practices
• Have two libraries for the study of Buddha’s spoken words, commentaries, and tantras
° These libraries will also serve as shrine rooms for the practice of ngondro with one devoted to mahamudra and the other dzogchen
° Each will possess screens and speakers so that teachings in the main shrine can be viewed
° One library will be dedicated to families with young children during teachings so that parents may listen to teachings with their children
° One library will be dedicated to those elderly and infirm who require the ability to sit, stand, and move about during teaching
• Have apartments for the use of the Gyalwang Karmapa, Tai Situpa, and other visiting teachers
• Have a kitchen for the care of visiting and resident lamas with speakers for staff members to listen to teachings while working
• Afford accessibility for individuals who are handicapped
• Contain a number of retreat rooms for individual practice available to students of any teacher as appropriate
• Have a room for making tormas for large assembly practices

It is also my wish that in regard to the upholding and propagation of the lineage of Barway Dorje, Kunzang Palchen Ling should also:
• Hold regular empowerments and transmissions of the Barway Dorje termas and Barom Kagyu lineage practices
• Make available frequent teachings on the practices available for students as appropriate
• Contain an upstairs shrine with a large Guru Rinpoche (Nangsi Zilnon) statue, surrounding statues of the Eight Names of Guru Rinpoche, his 25 main disciples, and the short lineage of transmission
• Hold regular periodic assembly practices on Yamantaka, Vajrakilaya, and White Khechari
• Host the yearly Feast Dances of White Khechari with participation of the community of students
It is my most important wish that, while the lineages of Dharma are ancient, Kunzang Palchen Ling reflect modern sensibilities for all genuine practitioners of Buddhadharma. It should therefore cherish all of its members, staff, and contributors with equality, decency and respect for their rights as individuals. It should also do its upmost to follow the laws, customs and traditions of the surrounding community as consistent with Dharma and morality.
I believe this undertaking will be of great merit for all who are connected with it now and in the future. I encourage everyone to do their upmost to assist in its creation.
With prayers for the happiness of all beings,
Bardor Tulku Rinpoche
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Re: The Banning of Bardor Tulku Rinpoche

Postby Heruka » Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:31 pm

Jangchub,

Im strongly considering travelling and pay a visit to this new center, can you give some idea of upcoming events, teachings and so forth?

many thanks.
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Re: The Banning of Bardor Tulku Rinpoche

Postby Jangchup Donden » Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:48 pm

Heruka wrote:Jangchub,

Im strongly considering travelling and pay a visit to this new center, can you give some idea of upcoming events, teachings and so forth?

many thanks.


Sure thing.

Rinpoche is in a Hayagriva retreat right now until May 7th, which is also the center's anniversary. But until he is out of retreat, the center is closed (because thats where he's performing it). He'll be giving a Hayagriva empowerment at the anniversary, and we do a Guru Rinpoche practice in the morning and then have lunch in between -- there's always too much food. :) Rinpoche is currently teaching instructions on Barom Kagyu Mahamudra, but it looks like the next teaching weekend for that (July) has been canceled, so I'm not sure when he'll be teaching on that next.

This summer we're really lucky. HE Garchen Rinpoche is teaching May 21 and 22nd, and HE Jetsun Khandro Rinpoche is teaching July 29-31.

The current schedule is here: http://kunzang.org/assets/schedule/pdf- ... 7-2011.pdf

And there's a google calendar set up here: http://kunzang.org/schedule-calendar.html which is always the most up to date.
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Re: The Banning of Bardor Tulku Rinpoche

Postby Heruka » Sat Apr 23, 2011 5:03 pm

:anjali:
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Re: The Banning of Bardor Tulku Rinpoche

Postby conebeckham » Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:19 pm

I dunno.....seems to me that this whole situation, though admittedly painful for some, has resulted in propagation and spread of Dharma in general, and of a little-known lineage in particular. In the end (as if there were such a thing, really....) positive outcomes may accrue from what we think are negative events.
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Re: The Banning of Bardor Tulku Rinpoche

Postby Jangchup Donden » Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:30 am

conebeckham wrote:I dunno.....seems to me that this whole situation, though admittedly painful for some, has resulted in propagation and spread of Dharma in general, and of a little-known lineage in particular. In the end (as if there were such a thing, really....) positive outcomes may accrue from what we think are negative events.


Even in my own practice, that seems like a common theme. What I consider to be negative at the time eventually ends up positive. I probably need to trust my guru more. :P
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Re: The Banning of Bardor Tulku Rinpoche

Postby JKhedrup » Thu Aug 09, 2012 5:10 am

Just wanted to add that recently Bardor Tulku Rinpoche taught at Karma Sonam Dargye Ling, a centre in Toronto with quite strong links to KTD, though I am not sure if it is an actual branch.

You can see the add for the event here: http://www.ksdl.org/

Maybe a good sign that the dispute has simmered down!
In order to ensure my mind never comes under the power of the self-cherishing attitude,
I must obtain control over my own mind.
Therefore, amongst all empowerments, the empowerment that gives me control over my mind is the best,
and I have received the most profound empowerment with this teaching.
-Atisha Dipamkara
brtsal ba'i bkhra drin
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Re: The Banning of Bardor Tulku Rinpoche

Postby Jangchup Donden » Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:38 pm

JKhedrup wrote:Maybe a good sign that the dispute has simmered down!


I sure hope so! I went to KTD for HH the Karmapa last summer, and it was a little uncomfortable being there knowing all the politics going around. :( Which is a shame because seeing Khenpo Karthar Rinpoche and other teachers at KTD is always a blessing.
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Re: The Banning of Bardor Tulku Rinpoche

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:24 am

This is all such yakpoop (B.S.) speculation. It's really awful to read all of this nonsense. The separation was due to happen someday, but the way it happened was premature and abrupt, and I think, taken as a precautionary measure a bit over enthusiastically on behalf of some senior students of KKR. That is the source of the pain that has arisen. There are no bad feelings between BTR & KKR and most students of either or both that I know (myself included) have long since stopped worrying about it and freely attend teachings by either teacher.

The initial posting to this thread was worse than some of the 2012 (US) presidential campaign ads.

People would do well to stop stirring up trouble where none exists.
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Re: The Banning of Bardor Tulku Rinpoche

Postby Greg » Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:55 pm

PadmaVonSamba wrote:This is all such yakpoop (B.S.) speculation. It's really awful to read all of this nonsense. The separation was due to happen someday, but the way it happened was premature and abrupt, and I think, taken as a precautionary measure a bit over enthusiastically on behalf of some senior students of KKR. That is the source of the pain that has arisen. There are no bad feelings between BTR & KKR and most students of either or both that I know (myself included) have long since stopped worrying about it and freely attend teachings by either teacher.

The initial posting to this thread was worse than some of the 2012 (US) presidential campaign ads.

People would do well to stop stirring up trouble where none exists.
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The fact that it all seems to have died down does not mean that it didn't raise a number of troubling issues that were worth acknowledging and discussing.
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Re: The Banning of Bardor Tulku Rinpoche

Postby PadmaVonSamba » Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:28 pm

Greg wrote:
PadmaVonSamba wrote:
People would do well to stop stirring up trouble where none exists.


The fact that it all seems to have died down does not mean that it didn't raise a number of troubling issues that were worth acknowledging and discussing.


There are many things worthy of discussion in a constantly changing world,
and Tibetan Buddhism in America is no exception. That this incident highlights that fact is good.

But the circumstances particular to this event, in and of themselves may or may not be a source of "trouble" for peoples minds. Sometimes the mind stirs up its own troubles. Much depends on what factual information one has, and how much speculation, rumor and sensational conjecture one has been offered.

People should not be afraid to discuss 'troubling' issues, but also look at why an issue is 'troubling' . Is it because of conflicts of lineage, or inheritance of real estate, or is it just mental projections?

Outside of the mind, where does the 'troubling' exist?
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Khenpo Karthar Rinpoche, Bardor Tulku Rinpoche, North American Kagyu Monlam 2010
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