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 Post subject: Re: Moving on
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:10 pm 
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For a second there I thought you were actually going to practice what you preach and actually felt happy for you, alas!
***YAWN!***

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 Post subject: Re: Moving on
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:19 pm 
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TMingyur-
I'm going to guess your Tibetan name is Tenzin Mingyur. (?)

If that's the case, then I make the following wish for you--"May you hold the unchanging truth of the Doctrine!" :smile:

Seriously, best wishes to you, no matter what you decide and where you go.

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 Post subject: Re: Moving on
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:17 am 
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conebeckham wrote:
If that's the case, then I make the following wish for you--"May you hold the unchanging truth of the Doctrine!" :smile:

Seriously, ...

Yes. Actually that's my practice. Taking refuge is this commitment, isn't it? It is meant seriously. "Doctrine" is "Dharma". "Dharma" is "dharma". "dharma" is what is directly experienced on the one hand and what distorts that direct experience on the other hand. In this way the "Doctrine", the "Dharma" teaches the impermanence that is caused by this distortion, the dukkha this impermanence may lead to if volition aims at appropriating as "I" and "mine" when there actually is no support for "I" and "mine" at all.

conebeckham wrote:
best wishes to you, no matter what you decide and where you go.

Thanks. The cessation of "going to somewhere" may be most appropriate because wanting to go to somewhere may be "located" in the sphere of the 12 limbs, metaphorically speaking because these actually do not have any support either.

Kind regards


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 Post subject: Re: Moving on
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:53 am 
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I would say you think too much with too little information, TMingyur, ending up losing yourself. You seem overly concerned (not to say paranoid because I don't want you to take me the wrong way) about ordinary language. Is it fear of contradicting yourself, what? Fear that because of your words you are inducing wrong view? I fail to see your insistence in the same subject.

You don't need to use all those "", really. We all know language is always relative. Couldn't be other way. Same goes to any concept or the idea of not having any.
When we meditate, all those concepts you keep talking about, those "correlates" and what not don't matter a flying f*. Only when one is clarifying doubts, studying, contemplating and when one is acting, is one bound to use concepts, ideas, representations, approximations, discrimination, all that relative stuff that allows unenlightened to function in daily life. One functions with concepts, but isn't lost by concepts. Otherwise we will look stupid or mentally challenged. Once practice starts, all that goes through the window without one needing to be reminded about it constantly. In the end, theory guides practice so that when we face an obstacle we recognize it and overcome it. Theory is not for intellectual amusement. It's sole end is guiding practice (e.g. providing a rationale for not taking some subtle meditative experiences as being enlightenment). Intellectual masturbation is a hindrance like any other. There's enough theory to guide one's practice laid down by true experts. What there is is a shortage of practice, not theory.

Don't take me the wrong way. Writing so bluntly doesn't mean I hate you or even dislike you. You at least think about Dharma, and that's great. So none of that. It's just that I think your freedom is as important as anyone else's and you are imposing. If you stick to your opinions not revising them, in spite what others keep saying, then what's the point of these debates? If you feel you got it and we didn't, and we still don't agree not mattering the number of posts you write, tough break for us. Our loss. Just move on.

If such behavior was limited to threads you started, perhaps in the creative writing sub-forum, we could skip them without problem. The problem lies in all of those threads you relentlessly hijack. It's boring and leads us nowhere. Besides you risk misleading newcomers who aren't to blame of your own confusion. This is an internet board and there's only so much that can be explained here. Think this way, if what you have to say is so subtle, so deep that not even our best members get it, maybe there's no point in doing it...

If I were you I would stop the drama, hit the cushion and shut up. It's good for you and good for the rest of us who have to put up with your constant nonsensical interruptions. Sincerely I wish you the best. Perhaps you should take a break and see a real teacher, spend some time with him, doing real practice, you know?
It would be much better for you.

So as you've announced, move on already. Please! Best of luck! :thanks:


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 Post subject: Re: Moving on
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:11 am 
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Dechen Norbu wrote:
I would say you think too much with too little information, TMingyur, ending up losing yourself. You seem overly concerned (not to say paranoid because I don't want you to take me the wrong way) about ordinary language. Is it fear of contradicting yourself, what? Fear that because of your words you are inducing wrong view? I fail to see your insistence in the same subject.

There being neither "self" nor "a position" where could contradiction arise from?

Dechen Norbu wrote:
When we meditate, all those concepts you keep talking about, those "correlates" and what not don't matter a flying f*. Only when one is clarifying doubts, studying, contemplating and when one is acting, is one bound to use concepts, ideas, representations, approximations, discrimination, all that relative stuff that allows unenlightened to function in daily life.
...
If I were you I would stop the drama, hit the cushion and shut up. It's good for you and good for the rest of us who have to put up with your constant nonsensical interruptions.

There is a label "Dechen Norbu" which appears to be the source of lengthy postings. Why is this?
Expression of experience in the "personal experience" section ... only there?

Dechen Norbu wrote:
It's good for... for the rest of us who have to put up with your constant nonsensical interruptions.

If dukkha arises avoidance may be of benefit.

Who is entitled to "personal experience" and who is not so entitled ?


Kind regards


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 Post subject: Re: Moving on
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:21 am 
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You simply can't help it, can you? :rolling:


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 Post subject: Re: Moving on
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:30 am 
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The partiality of some practitioners of some traditions is revealing.
Soothing and mild persuasive words if others are on the verge of following their own tradition and tenets but then ...

Now isn't that a personal experience?

kind regards


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 Post subject: Re: Moving on
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 5:22 am 
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There’s a joke in my country that goes more or less like this:

There was this bloke who craved for kinky sex and wasn’t getting some for a long, long time since he had no money. He decided to do something about it and got to a brothel where he went about only having a few cents, but really wanting to have some of that kinky stuff. The pimp lolled and told him that no prostitute would do him for less than 50 dlrs, but they had a backroom where he could f*** a white duck. He could go there and help himself. And so he did, thinking that it wasn’t such a bad deal. For him at least, since the duck got the rough end of the stick… I mean, literally!
Anyway, a few days later he had some luck at gambling and decided to spend some money, so he went to the same brothel. Having money in his pocket, he asked for suggestions. The pimp showed him to a room where they were having live sex show with a clown. The guy thought to himself that it was too good to miss. At the end he commented with the fellow sitting next to him about how great was that show. The bloke replied: you think that was great? You should have seen last week a weirdo f***** a duck!

Go figure!
:cheers:


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 Post subject: Re: Moving on
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 5:35 am 
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Dechen Norbu wrote:
There’s a joke in my country that goes more or less like this:

There was this bloke who craved for ...


Craving actually is no joke ... it is the root of all misery ... clinging aggregates are the root of clinging to views and tenets ... from my "personal experience" perspective the Buddha was right.

Kind regards


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 Post subject: Re: Moving on
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:14 am 
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:shock: You really don't get it, do you? :rolling:


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 Post subject: Re: Moving on
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:47 am 
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Right speech is about Dharma. "To get the Dharma" is all there is worthwhile to get.

At a rather late stage on the path conceit is abandoned. Until then it is conducive to be mindful and not unnecessarily condition oneself with conceit because this just increases hindrances.

From my "personal experience" this advice of the Buddha is right.


kind regards


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 Post subject: Re: Moving on
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:52 am 
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:quoteunquote: :shrug: :quoteunquote:


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 Post subject: Re: Moving on
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 9:29 am 
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Dear Dechen,
What "he" is "saying" is that "he" is "enlightened".
:namaste:
PS Sorry, had to edit the post and put in the quotation marks so that nobody takes what I say to be what I know rather than what I mean.
Know what I mean???
Good old TM! His witty humor is always the centrepiece of the party! :twothumbsup: If it wasn't for TM we wouldn't have any fun on this site, it would just be a bunch of ignorant fools agreeing with each other.
Keep up the good work TM!

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 Post subject: Re: Moving on
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:13 pm 
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Silence...might be best for all


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 Post subject: Re: Moving on
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:55 pm 
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TMingyur wrote:
Dechen Norbu wrote:
There’s a joke in my country that goes more or less like this:

There was this bloke who craved for ...


Craving actually is no joke ... it is the root of all misery ... clinging aggregates are the root of clinging to views and tenets ... from my "personal experience" perspective the Buddha was right.

Kind regards



No, the root of clinging to views and tenets is the the mistaken imputation of identity. That mistaken imputation is the cause of addiction to the aggregates.

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 Post subject: Re: Moving on
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:13 am 
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Namdrol wrote:
TMingyur wrote:
Dechen Norbu wrote:
There’s a joke in my country that goes more or less like this:

There was this bloke who craved for ...


Craving actually is no joke ... it is the root of all misery ... clinging aggregates are the root of clinging to views and tenets ... from my "personal experience" perspective the Buddha was right.

Kind regards



No, the root of clinging to views and tenets is the the mistaken imputation of identity. That mistaken imputation is the cause of addiction to the aggregates.

You say "no" even when you comfirm for the sake of saying "no"?
It is the clinging aggregates (clinging self-referentially to themselves) that manifest as the deluded sub-conceptual identification "I" and "mine" in the context of these process-like phenomena (i.e. the aggregates). Active conceptual imputation thinking "I" and "mine" only is the peak of this sub-conceptual ("intuitive") error.
First there is this feeling of "this is what my teacher, my tradition says" or "this is what I infer through logical thinking".


Edit: I have forgotten to refer to my "personal experience" choosing the words I am experiencing to be most appropriate. That is why I am writing it here in this section. These are no competing tenets, just experience.


Kind regards


Last edited by ground on Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:37 am, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Moving on
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:20 am 
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Are you going or not? :shrug:


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 Post subject: Re: Moving on
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:23 am 
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Tilopa wrote:
Are you going or not? :shrug:


Why go?


Kind regards


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 Post subject: Re: Moving on
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:28 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Moving on
PostPosted: Sat Apr 23, 2011 2:24 pm 
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TMingyur wrote:
It is the clinging aggregates (clinging self-referentially to themselves) that manifest as the deluded sub-conceptual identification "I" and "mine" in the context of these process-like phenomena (i.e. the aggregates). Active conceptual imputation thinking "I" and "mine" only is the peak of this sub-conceptual ("intuitive") error.


You have the cart before the horse.

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འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

How can you not practice the highest Dharma
at this time of obtaining a perfect human body?

-- Jetsun Dragpa Gyaltsen


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