Golden Dawn and Buddhism

No holds barred discussion on the Buddhadharma. Argue about rebirth, karma, commentarial interpretations etc. Be nice to each other.

Re: Does any level of Buddhism recognize this?

Postby Mr. G » Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:06 pm

Rael wrote:
all i have are teachings given to me orally from my Gurus....and clearly stated them....

Well instead of turning this into a "My Guru said this..." game, referring back to sutras or tantras is best. I think there are some people who are afraid to check what their Guru's say against scripture...and there shouldn't be.

like i said you may not agree but scoffing and lame comparativeness only come off mean.

it's just the way you tramped my view is all..adding nazism and scientology and claiming this is the same as my view is not very seems anger filled....for it is nonsensical....

You make extreme statements about how you personally define what is Dharma. I was giving an extreme example that was naturally inferred by your definition. Discussions like this degenerate without citations (as plwk has kindly provided some).

i loathe the anger ...and dishonesty that abounds online....

I honestly think this is your own projection because you have no reference point to your statements.
    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu
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Re: Golden Dawn and Buddhism

Postby conebeckham » Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:16 pm


If you talk to any of the pre-eminent translators and practitioners of authentic Buddhist lineages, from any Asian-derived tradition, who were raised in Western Cultures, I am sure you will find very few who support your notion that Golden Dawn, or any other "mystic" or "occult" society, had any real influence in bringing the Dharma to the West.....and I'd bet that most of those people would also claim no influence from those societies, personally, as well. Maybe you'd find one, I dunno....I doubt it.

The spread of Dharma in Western Cultures occurred due to the existence of teachers (mostly Asian) who took the time and effort to teach interested Western students. Also, because said teachers took the time to educate themselves about our own cultural predispositions and worldviews. And because there were, and are, Western Students who had diligence and enthusiasm. It did not occur because some Westerners incorporated notions they thought were "Buddhism" into their own creative fantasies. My personal feeling, and this may be incorrect, is that it has only been in the last few decades that authentic transmission has occurred, in no small part due to the gradual "loosening" of the grip of Christianity and monotheistic faiths in Western Cultures. Certainly there are other factors--we live in a more multicultural world than ever before....

The Buddha turned the Wheel of Dharma three times, at least according to my (Tibetan) Tradition. Other Buddhist traditions may assert different turnings--I'm not that familiar with what the Thais, Sri Lankans, Vietnamese, Japanese, Laotian, Burmese Buddhists say about this..... But no Buddhist tradition asserts that any other religion or religious movement was part of any "turning" of the Dharma Wheel. HHDL, Kyabje Kalu Rinpoche, and many other masters have stressed respect for other traditions, and have pointed out the positive and beneficial factors and positions of other traditions. But every teacher I've met and studied with has not equated other religions with Buddhism.

According to a Khenpo I have studied with, there are two ways of "teaching the Dharma"--from a very public position, to "outsiders," wherein the commonalities between traditions are stressed, and the basic human values of compassion, love, nonviolence, morality, are stressed...and the "insider" position, which takes these values into account, but which stresses the differences, the "special teachings" or distinctive features of a tradition, those teachings and positions which differentiate that tradition from other traditions. But even from those who teach Buddhism according to the first position, and HHDL would be the primary example of this in the World at this time, there is always a clear differentiation, and clear statement regarding the necessity of maintaining one's tradition, and not mixing or confusing things.
As I said before, things may be similar, but not the same. It's important to understand both of these factors--the similarities, and the differences. But as an "insider" (the Tibetan term "Nangpa," literally translated, and multivalent but meaning "Insider" as well as "Buddhist") it is the differences that define us.
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Be dedicated to the Ultimate Benefit of All Sentient Beings.
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Re: Golden Dawn and Buddhism

Postby Rael » Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:04 pm

Maybe the obvious reason was mentioned

it sort of a slap in the face if Tibetans claim Jesus for their own...

look , maybe your not close enough to your teachers to get the real street wise stuff....

end of....

you all know what i'm saying makes sense....otherwise it would be just heruka type troll response :tongue:

The real teachings and the reality there of is not for everyone it seems...steps on toes politically...

My teachers over soup and such , hounded into me brain....Buddha is a label...buddhism is a label...

there are enlightened beings who don't practice Buddhism in an organized way ...right here on earth as we speak....

The Tulku told me of one he is quite found of when visiting some place ...he gives money to....

fully enlightened being buddhism school training...does not label himself a Buddha..

have fun with your labels and scoff.....

and coebeckum, what you say about the intro to the west is true...i'm not going to argue....

but there are so many other enlightened ways of the Buddhas that aided the foundations patiently and subtlely

Everything is Dharma....

The buddha's to coin a phrase "pawn this world"

open your hearts and minds to the beauty of it all...

instead of going all it is not written and subscribing to papalesque buddhism.....see the beauty in this thing

until Greg ever mentioned this i never knew of it....and oddly enough :spy: i noticed Yeshe's :stirthepot: new avatar :stirthepot: is their symbol...

watches as traffic goes to Yeshe's hometown :tongue:

stop being a bunch of old ladies and embrace the beauty of your world.... :thumbsup:
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Re: Golden Dawn and Buddhism

Postby Jikan » Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:21 pm

Jikan wrote:
Enochian wrote:Golden Dawn is a crappy Modern British invention. ... addOneStar

Is anyone familiar with the texts Enochian cites as recommended in the review linked above?

If you want to become a real adept I have some books for you to read. Please read Key of Solomon by Joseph Peterson, Lesser Key of Solomon by Joseph Peterson, Enochian Vision Magick by Lon Milo Duquette, Arbatel by Jospeh Peterson, Greek Magical papyri (there are a couple of books on this), and lastly Book of Abramelin: A New Translation by Abraham von Worms, edited by Georg Dehn, translated by Steven Guth.

Any takers?

I'd like to know in particular if there are any verifiable connections or even just relations of resemblance between the sorts of magic, paganism & neopaganism described here (inclusive of Golden Dawn, whatever its origins), and any stream of Buddhist practice at all.
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Re: Golden Dawn and Buddhism

Postby Enochian » Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:24 pm

No there is no connection to buddhism

Golden Dawn is crap. Read my Amazon review.

Western esoterica as a whole is crap, but I really could not say that in the review.

Stick to buddhism.
There is an ever-present freedom from grasping the mind.

Mind being defined as the thing always on the Three Times.
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Re: Golden Dawn and Buddhism

Postby Sherab Dorje » Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:28 pm

Well I read the review and it seems that GD is as bent out of shape as the basis for your review. I know that's not saying much but anyway, thanks for the link!
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Golden Dawn and Buddhism

Postby Rael » Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:31 pm

Jikan wrote:Any takers?

I'd like to know in particular if there are any verifiable connections or even just relations of resemblance between the sorts of magic, paganism & neopaganism described here (inclusive of Golden Dawn, whatever its origins), and any stream of Buddhist practice at all.

your worried about context of the other philosophies...instead of seeing where they lead to...and how they shape societies and cultures....

there are all sorts of teachings and religions that appear due to the turning of the Dharma Wheel..a lot of them completely opposing one an other....yet they serve purpose to sentients in this struggle over myriads of eons to liberation of all sentient beings...
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