Based on the "Tibetan Interest in EA Buddhism
" I thought it's better to get a new topic for the subject. For a start here are a few quotes.We have already said that the primordial state contains in potentiality the manifestation of enlightenment. The sun, for example, naturally has light and rays, but when the sky is cloudy, we don not see them. The clouds in this case represent our obstacles that are a result of dualism and conditioning: when they are overcome, the state of self-perfection shines with all its manifestations of energy, without ever having been altered or improved. This is the characteristic principle of Dzogchen. Not understanding this may lead one to think that Dzogchen is the same as Zen or Ch'an. At heart, Zen, which without any doubt is a high and direct Buddhist teaching, is based on the principle of emptiness as explained in sutras such as the Prajnaparamita. Even though in this regard, in substance it is no different from Dzogchen, the particularity of Dzogchen lies in the direct introduction to the primordial state not as "pure emptiness" but rather as endowed with all the aspects of the self-perfection of energy. It is through applying these that one attains realization.
(N. Norbu & A. Clemente: The Supreme Source, p. 88)The Zen tradition is the actual application of shunyata, or emptiness, practice, the heart of the mahayana teaching. Historically, the zen method is based on dialectical principles - you engage in continual dialogues with yourself, asking questions constantly. by doing that, in the end you begin to discover that questions don't apply anymore in relationship to the answer. That is a way of using up dualistic mind, based on the logic of Nagarjuna. The interesting point is that the practice of traditional Indian logic used by Hindu and Buddhist scholars is turned into experiential logic rather than just ordinary debate or intellectual argument. Logic becomes experiential.
These two practices are not polarities. You have to go through Zen practice before you get to mahamudra practice, because if you don't realize that asking questions is the way to learn something, that the questioning process is a learning process, then the whole idea of study becomes distorted. So one must learn to see that trying to struggle for some achievement or goal is useless; you have to start from the Zen or mahayana tradition. And after that, you realize that asking questions is not the only way, but being a fool is the only way. If you see the foolishness of asking questions, then you begin to lear something. Foolishness begins to become wisdom. At that point, you transform yourself into another dimension, a completely other dimension. You thought you had achieved a sudden glimpse of nonduality, but that nonduality also contains relationship. You still need to relate yourself to that sudden glimpse of beyond question. That's when you begin to become mahamudra experience. In other words, the Zen tradition seems to be based on the shunyata principle, which is a kind of emptiness and openness, absence of duality. The mahamudra experience is a way of wiping out the consciousness of the abscence: you begin to develop clear perceptions beyond being conscious of the absence. ,,, I suppose you could say that Zen and mahamudra are complementary to one another. Without the one, the other couldn't exist.
(The Collected Works of Chögyam Trungpa, vol. 6, p. 43, 44)You see, an interesting point is that once you begin to get into big mind - as the Yogacharins or Zen call it, the BIG mind [laughter] - it extends your vision. But then, once you begin to get into VAST mind, even BIG mind is so small.
(ibid., p. 471)Dzogchen teaches that all we have to do to become enlightened is to recognize and rest in this natural state of mind. In Zen they call this original mind. This is raw, naked awareness, not something we've learned or fabricated. This is the Buddha within - the perfect presence that we can all rely on. Waking up to this natural mind, this Buddha-nature, is what meditation is all about.
(Surya Das: Awakening the Buddha Within, p. 316)The Zen practice of shikantaza, the Tibetan practices of mahamudra and dzogchen, and the Theravadan practice of full mindfulness of breathing are all examples of the practice of presence.
(Ken McLeod: Wake Up Your Life, p. 419)Many people are more accustomed to doing practice in the Sutra style, and when they speak of meditation, for example, they always consider it to be sitting with crossed legs and closed eyes. In the Sutra teachings, there are gradual and nongradual methods. The origins of latter methods are to be found in the history of all the present day schools of Zen.
Zen methods are nowadays very developed; and since many methods from different sources have been integrated with them, they no longer exist exactly as they did in ancient times. Nevertheless, even if they ahve been altered over time, they are still based on the Sutra teachings. This is why, in Zen, it is believed that the main point of practice is to get into the state of shunyata, or voidness, and to remain in it. That is what meditation is considered to be in Zen.
In any kind of Sutra teaching, meditation involves sitting silently in a quiet place. Many people are attached to that form of practice, and some people have an aversion to Tantrism because they feel that it requires too many things to recite and contruct, and the use of many ritual instruments for doing rites and pujas and so on. Such people prefer to simply meditate in silence.
(Namkhai Norbu: Dzogchen Teachings, p. 25)
"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)
"Neither cultivation nor seated meditation — this is the pure Chan of Tathagata."
(Mazu Daoyi, X1321p3b23; tr. Jinhua Jia)
“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."
(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T2076p461b24-26)