Articles to read, Living out loud, vs a Rigid Spirituality.

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Articles to read, Living out loud, vs a Rigid Spirituality.

Postby ZenLem » Sun Apr 17, 2011 1:18 am

Hey guys, just some spiritual issues, basically the first article argues for not adhering to strict spiritual practice, while the second sort of pokes holes in that as missing the point

Cultivating a sloppy spirituality
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/meimei-fo ... 44670.html

The response
http://www.infinitesmile.org/2011/04/cu ... rituality/

Personally, it sounds like a middle way issue. I personally know the difference between enjoyment and addiction, or at least I hope I do. Anyway, something to chew on.
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Re: Articles to read, Living out loud, vs a Rigid Spirituality.

Postby Heruka » Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:34 am

I have a bone to pick with spiritual gurus: They're just such goody two-shoes. Where is the sex, drugs and rock 'n' roll?

I mean, is anyone really as saintly as Liz Gilbert makes herself out to be in "Eat, Pray, Love," avoiding even one torrid Italian love affair? As for His Holiness the Dalai Lama, he was raised from a young age to embody compassion and mindfulness, never lashing out in anger or seeking revenge, and he does an excellent job of that. But this isn't a new story: Jesus resisted every temptation thrown his way some 2,000 years ago.



classic bleeding heart moral relativity of the atheist left.
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Re: Articles to read, Living out loud, vs a Rigid Spirituality.

Postby Heruka » Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:42 am

the Buddha's robes may have been worn, but I saw both teachers and their flocks act like spoiled children who often excused their behavior by hiding behind distorted versions of the teaching. Perhaps because of this obvious hypocrisy, I, like MeiMei, was a bit of a "bad" student. I was known for messing with the words of various liturgical chants, and I did my best to crack others up in the midst of ceremonies and meditation. I even snuck out of the monastery to have a beer with some other monks at a local pub once. Crazy, I know, but at these early stages of my journey, my life as a monk was, as MeiMei might put it, lived out-loud, even as the depths of the Dharma instructed me to shut up and sit still.



some people refuse the deconstruction programing....most Anglo Saxon Celtic viking tribes do....its in the DNA.

:smile: i think they can smell the social engineering collective commune utopian intent that has creeped into the Buddhas teachings over the millennium quite well.
Last edited by Heruka on Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Articles to read, Living out loud, vs a Rigid Spirituality.

Postby Indrajala » Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:47 am

It's life, after all. Indulge! Go for the meditation retreat and the all-night rave party. The kale and the butter. Get lost. Get hurt. Then pick up the pieces and move on. On the spiritual path, every failure is a learning opportunity, every challenge a chance to connect with your higher self. If you live from your heart, you can't ever really go wrong.


The spirituality she outlines and proposes as her ideal is nothing more than a palliative medication that will shortly lose its efficacy as time wears on and the reality of old age, sickness, dying and death become more and more apparent.

If you live from your unenlightened heart instead of listening to wiser voices like the Buddha you will only create further suffering for yourself.

The whole purpose of Buddhadharma is to identify the causes of suffering and permanently remedy them. Elimination of suffering. It isn't some kind of loose lifestyle.
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Re: Articles to read, Living out loud, vs a Rigid Spirituality.

Postby Heruka » Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:48 am

Huseng wrote:
It's life, after all. Indulge! Go for the meditation retreat and the all-night rave party. The kale and the butter. Get lost. Get hurt. Then pick up the pieces and move on. On the spiritual path, every failure is a learning opportunity, every challenge a chance to connect with your higher self. If you live from your heart, you can't ever really go wrong.


The spirituality she outlines and proposes as her ideal is nothing more than a palliative medication that will shortly lose its efficacy as time wears on and the reality of old age, sickness, dying and death become more and more apparent.

If you live from your unenlightened heart instead of listening to wiser voices like the Buddha you will only create further suffering for yourself.

The whole purpose of Buddhadharma is to identify the causes of suffering and permanently remedy them. Elimination of suffering. It isn't some kind of loose lifestyle.

:namaste:

:applause:
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Re: Articles to read, Living out loud, vs a Rigid Spirituality.

Postby Heruka » Sun Apr 17, 2011 4:50 am

hedonism is not Buddhism
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Re: Articles to read, Living out loud, vs a Rigid Spirituality.

Postby Indrajala » Sun Apr 17, 2011 5:03 am

Heruka wrote:hedonism is not Buddhism


I think her problem is that she sees herself as being progressive and innovative, but in reality she is just harping the same old platitudes about cultivating spirituality sans disagreeable religious elements which are to be sanitized away.

Fortunately she isn't claiming to be a Lama or Zen Priestess.

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Re: Articles to read, Living out loud, vs a Rigid Spirituality.

Postby Heruka » Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:07 am

Huseng wrote:
Heruka wrote:hedonism is not Buddhism


I think her problem is that she sees herself as being progressive and innovative, but in reality she is just harping the same old platitudes about cultivating spirituality sans disagreeable religious elements which are to be sanitized away.

Fortunately she isn't claiming to be a Lama or Zen Priestess.

"Depth psychotherapy-trained life coach; Ana Forrest-certified yoga instructor; author, ghostwriter and freelance editor"



:namaste:

i agree, but then again that is the problem,

i become indoctrinated into the same old obey system, remember that the heretic is co-opted and never martyred or destroyed, but simply brought into the norm, and then dismissed.
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Re: Articles to read, Living out loud, vs a Rigid Spirituality.

Postby ZenLem » Sun Apr 17, 2011 7:08 pm

It's strange, I love the drink, gotta say, yet I drink less and less every year, not because my teachings tell me too, I just have lost a natural interest in it, along with my other bad behaviors. So a dialing down effect has occurred the more I mediate and stay close at the heart of my feelings, rather than trying to pry myself away from them.

So, in living out loud, I absolutely agree with the premise, but I think the author has labeled "indulging my distractions", as "living out loud".
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Re: Articles to read, Living out loud, vs a Rigid Spirituality.

Postby Malcolm » Sun Apr 17, 2011 7:35 pm

ZenLem wrote:Hey guys, just some spiritual issues, basically the first article argues for not adhering to strict spiritual practice, while the second sort of pokes holes in that as missing the point

Cultivating a sloppy spirituality
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/meimei-fo ... 44670.html

The response
http://www.infinitesmile.org/2011/04/cu ... rituality/

Personally, it sounds like a middle way issue. I personally know the difference between enjoyment and addiction, or at least I hope I do. Anyway, something to chew on.



They both miss the point completely and neither of them are buddhists.

N
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he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

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Re: Articles to read, Living out loud, vs a Rigid Spirituality.

Postby ZenLem » Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:59 am

Namdrol wrote:
ZenLem wrote:Hey guys, just some spiritual issues, basically the first article argues for not adhering to strict spiritual practice, while the second sort of pokes holes in that as missing the point

Cultivating a sloppy spirituality
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/meimei-fo ... 44670.html

The response
http://www.infinitesmile.org/2011/04/cu ... rituality/

Personally, it sounds like a middle way issue. I personally know the difference between enjoyment and addiction, or at least I hope I do. Anyway, something to chew on.



They both miss the point completely and neither of them are buddhists.

N


Alright, you gotta elaborate on this one.
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Re: Articles to read, Living out loud, vs a Rigid Spirituality.

Postby Sherab Dorje » Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:08 pm

It looks pretty clear to me. From his biography:
Michael’s own spiritual journey began in 1987 with his practice and study with the Zen community at Green Gulch Farm in Sausalito, California. Over the years his journey led him to study abroad with teachers in both Thailand and Nepal, where, in addition to broadening his exposure to Buddhist teachings, he also experienced different ways of walking the Path to Spirit. While his teaching is Zen-inspired, he works to integrate several of the Nondual teachings from the contemplative traditions of Vedanta Hinduism, Christianity, Kabbalah, and Sufiism.
I think that lands him smack bam in the middle of the New Age desert of ideas.
:namaste:
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One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
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Re: Articles to read, Living out loud, vs a Rigid Spirituality.

Postby Jikan » Wed Apr 20, 2011 2:29 pm

ZenLem wrote:
Namdrol wrote:They both miss the point completely and neither of them are buddhists.

N


Alright, you gotta elaborate on this one.


I'd like to take a stab at this, but I'm not presuming to speak for Namdrol.

Both articles assume that spiritual practice is a kind of lifestyle choice. How do you make your life into a meaningful one? Sloppy or rigid? This is a bit like brand preference: do you want to buy the Sloppy Authenticity brand yogic experience, or the Rigid Mountain Austerity brand Zen experience? It's all in commodity terms.

The better question to ask is this: how are you going to accomplish the path? You have a goal (Buddhahood in this body, say). You need to find a method that will get you there regardless of your brand preference. Don't waste time making a spiritual fashion statement, just get your work done.
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Re: Articles to read, Living out loud, vs a Rigid Spirituality.

Postby Sherab Dorje » Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:49 pm

I kindda like a sloppy loud rigidity to my Dharma (decaf and with vanilla soy milk of course)!
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Articles to read, Living out loud, vs a Rigid Spirituality.

Postby Malcolm » Wed Apr 20, 2011 5:53 pm

ZenLem wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
ZenLem wrote:Hey guys, just some spiritual issues, basically the first article argues for not adhering to strict spiritual practice, while the second sort of pokes holes in that as missing the point

Cultivating a sloppy spirituality
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/meimei-fo ... 44670.html

The response
http://www.infinitesmile.org/2011/04/cu ... rituality/

Personally, it sounds like a middle way issue. I personally know the difference between enjoyment and addiction, or at least I hope I do. Anyway, something to chew on.



They both miss the point completely and neither of them are buddhists.

N


Alright, you gotta elaborate on this one.



One is a spiritual dilettante and the other is into "Spirit" whatever that is.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
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Re: Articles to read, Living out loud, vs a Rigid Spirituality.

Postby michaelmcalister » Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:54 am

With respect, it seems that my counterpoint to Ms. Fox's article is being misrepresented by these responses. If you read my piece, http://www.infinitesmile.org/2011/04/cultivating-a-sloppy-spirituality/, you'll most likely find that I'm arguing for a middle way between rigidity and a sloppy spirituality. If you don't find this to be the case, I'd welcome your critique.

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Re: Articles to read, Living out loud, vs a Rigid Spirituality.

Postby Sherab Dorje » Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:47 pm

Is practicing the Noble Eightfold Path rigid spirituality?
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Articles to read, Living out loud, vs a Rigid Spirituality.

Postby Josef » Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:59 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:Is practicing the Noble Eightfold Path rigid spirituality?
:namaste:

I guess that would depend on how one is practicing it?
But then again if one becomes rigid in their application of the path its probably not all that noble anymore.
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Re: Articles to read, Living out loud, vs a Rigid Spirituality.

Postby Sherab Dorje » Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:07 pm

Nangwa wrote:...rigid in their application of the path...
What does this mean?
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Articles to read, Living out loud, vs a Rigid Spirituality.

Postby Josef » Fri Apr 22, 2011 7:19 pm

gregkavarnos wrote:
Nangwa wrote:...rigid in their application of the path...
What does this mean?
:namaste:

Being fanatical or too literal in interpretation of things. Basically, being rigid and literal to the point that it limits your ability to actually apply the path.
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