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Monks/Nuns and Music - Dhamma Wheel

Monks/Nuns and Music

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
SamKR
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Monks/Nuns and Music

Postby SamKR » Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:23 pm

Can a monk or a nun sing songs, or play musical instruments? What does Theravada has to say about this?
If yes, are they restricted to music related to Dhamma?
Or, can't they do any kind of music at all?

I want to ask the same question for Mahayana, Vajrayana, Tibetan Buddhism, and other sects.
I know this is a Theravada forum, but I guess it is allowed to compare different sects.
Last edited by SamKR on Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:48 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Ben
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Re: Monks/Nuns and Music

Postby Ben » Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:29 pm

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

SamKR
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Re: Monks/Nuns and Music

Postby SamKR » Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:42 pm


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Hoja
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Re: Monks/Nuns and Music

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Re: Monks/Nuns and Music

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suriyopama
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Re: Monks/Nuns and Music

Postby suriyopama » Sun Oct 25, 2009 9:57 am

Last edited by suriyopama on Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Monks/Nuns and Music

Postby Paññāsikhara » Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:01 am

My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: .

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Re: Monks/Nuns and Music

Postby Paññāsikhara » Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:02 am

My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: .

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Re: Monks/Nuns and Music

Postby Individual » Sun Oct 25, 2009 10:02 am

The best things in life aren't things.


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Re: Monks/Nuns and Music

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Re: Monks/Nuns and Music

Postby Paññāsikhara » Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:20 am

My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: .

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Re: Monks/Nuns and Music

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Re: Monks/Nuns and Music

Postby BlackBird » Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:37 am

"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -

SamKR
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Re: Monks/Nuns and Music

Postby SamKR » Wed Oct 28, 2009 6:12 am

Thanks everybody for your interesting posts.

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Re: Monks/Nuns and Music

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Re: Monks/Nuns and Music

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Re: Monks/Nuns and Music

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bhikkhuni sobhana
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Re: Monks/Nuns and Music

Postby bhikkhuni sobhana » Mon Dec 14, 2009 2:03 pm

In our Theravada Monastery, (SL tradition partly influenced by Thai forest standards) we understand that "musical chanting" is prohibited by this khandaka rule. By "musical chanting" we draw the line, in practice, by not intentionally mispronouncing the pali or english for the sake of a tune. Now here is the story:

Cullavaga V.33.1 = Vin.II.139:

Now at that time Yameḷu and Tekula were the names of two monkks who were brothers, brahmans by birth, with lovely voices, with lovely enunciation. They approached the Lord; having approached, having greeted the Lord, they sat down at a respectful distance, these monks spoke thus to the Lord: "at present Lord, monks of various names, various clans, various social strata have gone forth from various families; these corrupt the speech of the Awakened One in using his own dialect.1. Now we, Lord, give the speech of the Awakened One in metrical form." 2. the Awakened One, the Lord rebuked them saying: How can you, foolish men, speak thus: 'Now we, Lord, give the speech of the Awakened One in metrical form'? It is not, foolish men for pleasing them who are not (yet) pleased, not for increasing the number of those who are pleased, but, monks, it is displeasing to those who are not pleased as well as to those who are pleased, and it causes wavering in some." And having rebuked them, having given reasoned talk, he addressed the monks, saying, "monks, the speech of the Awakened One should not be given in metrical form. Whoever should (so) give it, there is an offence of wrong-doing. I allow you monks to learn the speech of the Awakened one according to his own dialect.
• 1. sakkāya niruttiyā. V A. 1214 says the current Magadhese manner of speech according to the awakened one.
• 2. Chandaso āropema. V A. 1214 explains "we give (āropema) a way of speech according to the honoured dialect like a Veda." So, Buddhaghosa thought this meant they put in the dialect of the Vedas.

Bankei
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Re: Monks/Nuns and Music

Postby Bankei » Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:22 pm

The learned and respected vice-abbot at my neighbouring Wat in Thailand like R&B music. It can be heard sometimes from his kuti. Most of the monks in the Wat like to watch movies and I was surprised to find out my favourite monk there is into Korean dramas which he watched on his mobile phone.

Once some of the monks smuggled TV and game (Playstation?) console in and they all stayed up late playing games. Some of them even missed bindabat the next morning.

Bankei
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Bankei

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retrofuturist
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Re: Monks/Nuns and Music

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:55 am

Greetings Bankei,

That is rather saddening.

If I were to go into the homeless life, I would not have any of my music CDs with me (and believe me, there's a few) and that is a sacrifice I would make, and it would be a sacrifice commensurate with the gravity of the choice at hand.

If they're doing these things, what have they actually renounced? If they can't even adhere to the 8 precepts, what hope of 227 or so?

:?

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine


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