emptiness = interdependence?

No holds barred discussion on the Buddhadharma. Argue about rebirth, karma, commentarial interpretations etc. Be nice to each other.

Re: emptiness = interdependence?

Postby Malcolm » Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:12 pm

TMingyur wrote:
Therefore it is better to stay in the conventional sphere of the aggregates: perception, consciousness, feeling
Kind regards


but you don't.

There is a Dharma language used for discussing Dharma. It is very precise. I suggest you learn it.
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Re: emptiness = interdependence?

Postby Malcolm » Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:13 pm

TMingyur wrote:
Namdrol wrote:TMingyur has world split into, shall we say "represands" and "representations". He feels for every valid representation there must be an truly existent represand, otherwise, that representation is invalid. It is a very substantialist view.

He rejects madhyamaka because Madhyamaka renders all representations invalid since there are not actual represands, only conventional represands.

N


You are totally conditioned by your learned thinking. That is the effect of philosophy.

Kind regards



I am not a philosopher. I don't have any views. But it is interesting to see how yours are exposed at every turn.
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འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
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Re: emptiness = interdependence?

Postby Malcolm » Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:17 pm

Nangwa wrote:
TMingyur wrote:
Nangwa wrote:If not ideas, what?
If not yours, whose?


Just that:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. [1] Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range."
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html


Kind regards

The same quote again, that everyone knows and nobody disputes.
Talk about clinging. You're drowning in it.


Well, you know that TMingyur is a one trick pony, a substantialist one at that.

N
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http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
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Re: emptiness = interdependence?

Postby Josef » Thu Apr 14, 2011 11:21 pm

TMingyur wrote:
Well then ... I wonder what is so attractive about all these tenets about and around "emptiness" which are mere "intellect & ideas".

Kind regards

There is nothing particularly attractive about them. They are nothing more than conventional tools at our disposal for understanding and navigating our way out of our current samsaric condition. Nothing more, nothing less. Many people have progressed on the path through utilizing these tools and conventional understandings as buttresses to their practice, which leads to authentic direct experience.
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Re: emptiness = interdependence?

Postby Malcolm » Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:01 am

TMingyur wrote:I have never been talking about "my ideas".

Kind regards


Your ideation is all you have talking been about all along.
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
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Re: emptiness = interdependence?

Postby Malcolm » Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:04 am

TMingyur wrote:
Well then ... I wonder what is so attractive about all these tenets about and around "emptiness" which are mere "intellect & ideas".

Kind regards


There are no tenets around emptiness. Emptiness is not a view. It is the antidote to views, the antidote to tenets.

Views are only "asti" and "nasti" i.e. "is", or "isn't".



N
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://atikosha.org
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

" The one who teaches the benefits of peace,
he is said to be a ṛṣī; the others are the opposite of him."

-- Uttaratantra
Malcolm
 
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Re: emptiness = interdependence?

Postby Sherab » Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:39 am

norman wrote:What do you imply by "the ground of empty appearances"?

All phenomena are either mind or matter. So mind and matter is everything. Then we argue through various reasoning that everything is nothing. So mind and matter are nothing. But what give rise to our ability to discuss that mind and matter are nothing? Our mind, like matter, is but a phenomenon. And we have argued that everything is nothing. So our mind is nothing. So is nothing that which give rise to our ability to come to such a conclusion?
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Re: emptiness = interdependence?

Postby Heruka » Fri Apr 15, 2011 2:28 am

im bored. :coffee:
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Re: emptiness = interdependence?

Postby Josef » Fri Apr 15, 2011 2:52 am

Heruka wrote:im bored. :coffee:

Probably because we are reading a 15 page thread that should have ended with a single word.
Post 1:
Emptiness=Interdependence?
Post 2:
Yes

End of thread.
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Re: emptiness = interdependence?

Postby ground » Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:28 am

Namdrol wrote:
TMingyur wrote:I have never been talking about "my ideas".

Kind regards


Your ideation is all you have talking been about all along.


That is the nature of talking in terms of conventional language.

kind regards
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Re: emptiness = interdependence?

Postby ground » Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:30 am

Nangwa wrote:
TMingyur wrote:
Well then ... I wonder what is so attractive about all these tenets about and around "emptiness" which are mere "intellect & ideas".

Kind regards

There is nothing particularly attractive about them. They are nothing more than conventional tools at our disposal for understanding and navigating our way out of our current samsaric condition. Nothing more, nothing less. Many people have progressed on the path through utilizing these tools and conventional understandings as buttresses to their practice, which leads to authentic direct experience.


Ideas are produced at will.

Kind regards
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Re: emptiness = interdependence?

Postby ground » Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:33 am

Namdrol wrote:
TMingyur wrote:
Well then ... I wonder what is so attractive about all these tenets about and around "emptiness" which are mere "intellect & ideas".

Kind regards


There are no tenets around emptiness. Emptiness is not a view. It is the antidote to views, the antidote to tenets.

Views are only "asti" and "nasti" i.e. "is", or "isn't".


Is "apple" a view of not? On what basis do the thoughts "apple" and "emptiness" arise?

Kind regards
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Re: emptiness = interdependence?

Postby LastLegend » Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:44 am

TMingyur wrote:Is "apple" a view of not? On what basis do the thoughts "apple" and "emptiness" arise?

Kind regards


Will this really cut the imagination of or the longing for example emptiness?
Last edited by LastLegend on Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: emptiness = interdependence?

Postby Rael » Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:44 am

Nangwa wrote:
Heruka wrote:im bored. :coffee:

Probably because we are reading a 15 page thread that should have ended with a single word.
Post 1:
Emptiness=Interdependence?
Post 2:
Yes

End of thread.


it doesn't equal ...

it's an aspect one uses to lead one to the larger view of Sunyata..

it's simple but not that simple....

ok back to the petty bickering....*said in my best commander Data type* :tongue:
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Re: emptiness = interdependence?

Postby ground » Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:48 am

LastLegend wrote:
TMingyur wrote:Is "apple" a view of not? On what basis do the thoughts "apple" and "emptiness" arise?

Kind regards


Will this really cut the imagination?


What is "imagination"? On what basis does the thought "imagination" arise?

Compare "imagination" and "apple"

Kind regards
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Re: emptiness = interdependence?

Postby LastLegend » Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:51 am

TMingyur wrote:
LastLegend wrote:
TMingyur wrote:Is "apple" a view of not? On what basis do the thoughts "apple" and "emptiness" arise?

Kind regards


Will this really cut the imagination?


What is "imagination"? On what basis does the thought "imagination" arise?

Compare "imagination" and "apple"

Kind regards


I don't know. Can you explain please?
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Re: emptiness = interdependence?

Postby Indrajala » Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:53 am

This topic has degenerated into a dead horse which need not be beaten anymore.

It shall be locked until further notice.
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