Lamdre.

[Caz]

Could someone please kindly explain what Lamdre is and how it is practised.

[Malcolm]

Could someone please kindly explain what Lamdre is and how it is practised.

Lam 'bras, the path together with the result is the main teaching of the Sakya school.

The core of it is a concise set of instructions termed "vajra verses" written by the Mahasiddha Virupa for his disciple Krishnapa and brought to Tibet by Gayadhara, bestowed upon Drogmi Lotsawa.

The main practices of Lamdre center on the creation and completion stages of the Yidam Hevajra. Nevertheless, it is a gradual instruction, containing the entire Mahāyāna path of sutra and tantra.

One of the best features of lamdre is that is has a very detailed description of the precise experiences of traversing the paths and stages through the yogas of the completion stage.

[conebeckham]

Namdrol-

Is this path of practice the basis for a 3 year retreat in the Sakya system? Are other practices, outside this path, added?

And could you elucidate the difference between the Lam Dre TsokShay and the Lamdre Lobshay for us?

[Malcolm]

Namdrol-

Is this path of practice the basis for a 3 year retreat in the Sakya system? Are other practices, outside this path, added?

And could you elucidate the difference between the Lam Dre TsokShay and the Lamdre Lobshay for us?

Usually, people who do three years retreat will start with Vajrapani or Vajrakilaya; Hevajra creation and completion in the middle; some end with Mahakala, others with Yogini. It depends. Three retreat is a new addition to Sakya, actually.

There is not that much difference between the two systems, in reality. The basic difference is that the Tsogshad is more scholastic. The Lobshad is based on some manuals written by Tsarchen's disciple, and is a bit more experiential.

You will get the same result from either system.

[Caz]

Could someone please kindly explain what Lamdre is and how it is practised.

Lam 'bras, the path together with the result is the main teaching of the Sakya school.

The core of it is a concise set of instructions termed "vajra verses" written by the Mahasiddha Virupa for his disciple Krishnapa and brought to Tibet by Gayadhara, bestowed upon Drogmi Lotsawa.

The main practices of Lamdre center on the creation and completion stages of the Yidam Hevajra. Nevertheless, it is a gradual instruction, containing the entire Mahāyāna path of sutra and tantra.

One of the best features of lamdre is that is has a very detailed description of the precise experiences of traversing the paths and stages through the yogas of the completion stage.

Cheers Namdrol thats very helpful I was under the impression it was similar to the Lamrim. Interesting I notice that pretty much the essence of all sutra can be found in tantric practise in general.

[Mr. G]

Lam 'bras, the path together with the result is the main teaching of the Sakya school....

I've heard the daily practice takes about 2 hours? Is that about right?

[narraboth]

Lam 'bras, the path together with the result is the main teaching of the Sakya school....

I've heard the daily practice takes about 2 hours? Is that about right?

Depends on what length of text you will be doing, also how familiar you are with the practice, could be from 20 min to 4 hours. Usually a lamdre teaching will give you the right and obligation to do three of '4 unbreakable' daily; people should consider this before receiving.

It's not really about three years retreat; it's a complete path leads to enlightenment; people are encouraged to do retreat but not necessary (depends on what you would be asked by your lama). I believe Sakyapa emphasize daily practice more than retreat, if you are not going to be a dorje lopon.... and I have heard that Sakya retreats are more 'number' retreats than 'time' retreats (you fulfill certain amount of mantra chanting during retreat rather than set a time).

[Malcolm]

Lam 'bras, the path together with the result is the main teaching of the Sakya school....

I've heard the daily practice takes about 2 hours? Is that about right?

Depends on what length of text you will be doing, also how familiar you are with the practice, could be from 20 min to 4 hours. Usually a lamdre teaching will give you the right and obligation to do three of '4 unbreakable' daily; people should consider this before receiving.

It's not really about three years retreat; it's a complete path leads to enlightenment; people are encouraged to do retreat but not necessary (depends on what you would be asked by your lama). I believe Sakyapa emphasize daily practice more than retreat, if you are not going to be a dorje lopon.... and I have heard that Sakya retreats are more 'number' retreats than 'time' retreats (you fulfill certain amount of mantra chanting during retreat rather than set a time).

Correct. It is the three year retreat that I did. As to your second observation, I would disagree. Sakyas are encouraged to do retreats. But doiung daily practice is also very important. Sakya retreats are number retreats for beginners and time retreats for the more experienced. And for those of best capacity, they are "sign" retreats i.e. you stay in until you have signs.

These days Lamdre is usually given as a "blessing".

[Caz]

How did your retreat go Namdrol a 3 year one sounds like bliss

[narraboth]

I am sure for many people it can be both enjoyable and painful, I haven't done it

[narraboth]

These days Lamdre is usually given as a "blessing".

It's a huge blessing then lol
I haven't received Lamdre before and after so can't tell, but I think the teaching itself shouldn't be that different, it's the students different.

Blessing or not, you still need to do daily practices after that!

I think daily practice is a basic requirement and it's better to do retreat, although I doubt how many could do that nowadays.... (Another question is, how benefitial a full Lamdre teaching can be if people won't do a retreat to put all those teachings into practice? )

[Malcolm]

Blessing or not, you still need to do daily practices after that!

I think daily practice is a basic requirement and it's better to do retreat, although I doubt how many could do that nowadays.... (Another question is, how benefitial a full Lamdre teaching can be if people won't do a retreat to put all those teachings into practice? )

Whether you do daily practices after receiving Lamdre depends on the master giving the teaching.

You don't need to do a retreat to practice the full Lamdre.

But it helps.

[narraboth]

But it helps.

Do you feel that 3 years retreat helped your practice or mind a lot?

[Malcolm]

But it helps.

Do you feel that 3 years retreat helped your practice or mind a lot?

My retreat was a wonderful experience. Should do it again. Only this time I would focus exclusively on Dzogpa Chenpo.

N

[Kunga Leshe]

I was just made aware of this, reading it now: http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/lamdre.pdf

[lkug.pa]

This is a good book to have and idea about the Lam Dre meditation system:




http://www.wisdompubs.org/Pages/display.lasso?-KeyValue=32834&-Token.Action=&image=1
http://www.amazon.com/Three-Levels-Spiritual-Perception-Commentary/dp/0861713680