Translating the Words of the Buddha

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Astus
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Translating the Words of the Buddha

Postby Astus » Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:12 am

1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"

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Mr. G
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Re: Translating the Words of the Buddha

Postby Mr. G » Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:55 am

I had no idea it cost that much to translate a single page from the Kangyur ($250).
    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu

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Astus
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Re: Translating the Words of the Buddha

Postby Astus » Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:03 pm

It depends on how you count. For instance, $250 is more than three times the amount of average Indian monthly income. Also, for this money, you could get about 20 normal pages translated in Hungary (for instance a contract, but it's unlikely that they could do Buddhist texts from Tibetan, or anything from Tibetan). At an American translation company they do Tibetan to English for $0.22 per word, which means approximately 1136 Tibetan words for $250 (not counting other fees). But I suppose they collect money for the whole enterprise and not just getting a page translated.
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"

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LastLegend
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Re: Translating the Words of the Buddha

Postby LastLegend » Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:50 pm

In Vietnamese Buddhist traditions, those who translated texts were monks who have understood the teachings inside out. These monks were very closed to being enlightened. This is to say that those who translated the texts into Vietnamese were very qualified...Another information I want to share is: nowadays the Vietnamese monks who teach Dharma are ones who have been practiced and trained in the area of teaching for many years. I am sure the same goes for Chinese monks. This is not to say there are no laymen teachers. There are but laymen teachers still have to go through practice and intense training.

I can understand that Western practitioners have the limited access to Sutras, Dharma, teachers, etc relatively comparing to practitioners of Asian descent like myself for example. Of course I am not saying this to offend people, but it is something to keep mind when we approach books and interpretations. Of course it is much as my responsibility as everyone's else to recognize the proper teachings. The best way to see teachings is through practice when practice produces results.

Dharma teachings are free and so is meditation at the temple but with a small donation at every class. In generally, everything is free in my language Vietnamese.
NAMO AMITABHA
NAM MO A DI DA PHAT (VIETNAMESE)
NAMO AMITUOFO (CHINESE)

Bodhidharma [my translation]
―I come to the East to transmit this clear knowing mind without constructing any dharma―

Pero
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Re: Translating the Words of the Buddha

Postby Pero » Wed Mar 30, 2011 9:55 pm

Which Dzogchen texts are in the Kangyur?
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar

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Karinos
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Re: Translating the Words of the Buddha

Postby Karinos » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:39 pm

reading room of 84000 translation project is now open:

http://read.84000.co/


enjoy :)

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Malcolm
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Re: Translating the Words of the Buddha

Postby Malcolm » Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:59 pm

Pero wrote:Which Dzogchen texts are in the Kangyur?



kun byed rgyal po
http://www.atikosha.org
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


So called “sentient beings” are merely delusions self-appearing from the dhātu of luminosity.

-- Ju Mipham

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Indrajala
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Re: Translating the Words of the Buddha

Postby Indrajala » Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:04 pm

Namdrol wrote:
Pero wrote:Which Dzogchen texts are in the Kangyur?



kun byed rgyal po


Can you comment on the quality of the English texts being produced in the 84000 project?
tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |
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Malcolm
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Re: Translating the Words of the Buddha

Postby Malcolm » Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:05 pm

Huseng wrote:
Namdrol wrote:
Pero wrote:Which Dzogchen texts are in the Kangyur?



kun byed rgyal po


Can you comment on the quality of the English texts being produced in the 84000 project?


they are ok.
http://www.atikosha.org
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


So called “sentient beings” are merely delusions self-appearing from the dhātu of luminosity.

-- Ju Mipham

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Indrajala
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Re: Translating the Words of the Buddha

Postby Indrajala » Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:12 pm

Namdrol wrote:
they are ok.


That doesn't sound like a high appraisal.
tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |
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Karinos
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Re: Translating the Words of the Buddha

Postby Karinos » Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:29 pm

why would you question quality of translation of team of more then 100 people in the first place? :)

http://84000.co/about/translators/
http://84000.co/about/team/

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Indrajala
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Re: Translating the Words of the Buddha

Postby Indrajala » Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:44 pm

Karinos wrote:why would you question quality of translation of team of more then 100 people in the first place? :)

http://84000.co/about/translators/
http://84000.co/about/team/



I can't judge for myself the quality of the translations because I don't know Tibetan. So, I asked Namdrol's opinion as he is a translator of Tibetan with many years experience.

I hope their translations are quality.
tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |
Flower Ornament Depository (Blog) Exploring Classical Chinese (Blog) Dharma Depository (Site)

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Malcolm
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Re: Translating the Words of the Buddha

Postby Malcolm » Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:07 pm

Huseng wrote:
Karinos wrote:why would you question quality of translation of team of more then 100 people in the first place? :)

http://84000.co/about/translators/
http://84000.co/about/team/



I can't judge for myself the quality of the translations because I don't know Tibetan. So, I asked Namdrol's opinion as he is a translator of Tibetan with many years experience.

I hope their translations are quality.


Once the whole thing is translated, a complete revision will be necessary to take into account intertextuality. It is a good first step, but these translations should be regarded as drafts subject to change, as all translation made in the present day should be.
http://www.atikosha.org
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


So called “sentient beings” are merely delusions self-appearing from the dhātu of luminosity.

-- Ju Mipham

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Indrajala
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Re: Translating the Words of the Buddha

Postby Indrajala » Thu Feb 23, 2012 5:26 pm

Namdrol wrote:Once the whole thing is translated, a complete revision will be necessary to take into account intertextuality. It is a good first step, but these translations should be regarded as drafts subject to change, as all translation made in the present day should be.


Will you be a part of this project?

I ask because there are so very few translators of Tibetan in the English speaking world, so you're probably one of the few people on the planet really able to translate Classical Tibetan.
tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |
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Karinos
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Re: Translating the Words of the Buddha

Postby Karinos » Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:47 pm

Huseng wrote:
Karinos wrote:why would you question quality of translation of team of more then 100 people in the first place? :)

http://84000.co/about/translators/
http://84000.co/about/team/



I can't judge for myself the quality of the translations because I don't know Tibetan. So, I asked Namdrol's opinion as he is a translator of Tibetan with many years experience.

I hope their translations are quality.


fair enough. Team seems pretty strong, translators, reviewers etc. many "famous" names in tibetan translation and Buddha Dharma.

Namdrol wrote:Once the whole thing is translated, a complete revision will be necessary to take into account intertextuality. It is a good first step, but these translations should be regarded as drafts subject to change, as all translation made in the present day should be.


I think they do deep revision sutra by sutra (or tantra by tantra) as far as I understood from their page. however you are right about complete revision at the end.

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Malcolm
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Re: Translating the Words of the Buddha

Postby Malcolm » Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:09 pm

Karinos wrote:
I think they do deep revision sutra by sutra (or tantra by tantra) as far as I understood from their page. however you are right about complete revision at the end.


The thing is for example Conze has become a defacto standard in PP sutra literature. So the translation of Abhisamaalamkara by Spareham largely follows his lead.

So what do we do, retranslate the all these sutras and then make sure that the vast corpus of AA commentary texts use the those sutra passages or what? It is a big question -- that is why my verdict on the thing is only OK.

For example in the tantra they released they translated camphor but did not translate "silha" which is Frankincense and related resins from trees of the Boswellia family. With just a little extra digging they could have sorted that out.

N
http://www.atikosha.org
http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
Buddhahood in This Life
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


So called “sentient beings” are merely delusions self-appearing from the dhātu of luminosity.

-- Ju Mipham


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