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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:49 pm 
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How to overcome attachment to our partner, lovers, wifes and husbands? How to overcome fear of loss? How to overcome time of long separation and irationals doubts?

Many of us (buddhists) have or had relationships and its seems to me, that relationship among others generates a lot of negative emotions (fear, jealousy, craving etc.) and a lot of tension. But still, there is basic need to have someone close, someone with whom we can share our feelings, problems and joys. Its like a basic need, similar to need of eating, sleeping and so on. Relationships just happen....:smile:

So, what is the way to built healthy-buddhist? relationship? :tongue: What have to be done to have relationship without pain? Its possible at all? :shrug:

What is yours experience? Its not so easy, right? :rolleye:


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 12:55 pm 
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wanderer wrote:
How to overcome attachment to our partner, lovers, wifes and husbands? How to overcome fear of loss? How to overcome time of long separation and irationals doubts?


Contemplate death and impermanence.

Reflect on the fortune of a precious human birth.

Be grateful.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:27 pm 
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wanderer wrote:
How to overcome attachment to our partner, lovers, wifes and husbands? How to overcome fear of loss? How to overcome time of long separation and irationals doubts?

Many of us (buddhists) have or had relationships and its seems to me, that relationship among others generates a lot of negative emotions (fear, jealousy, craving etc.) and a lot of tension. But still, there is basic need to have someone close, someone with whom we can share our feelings, problems and joys. Its like a basic need, similar to need of eating, sleeping and so on. Relationships just happen....:smile:

So, what is the way to built healthy-buddhist? relationship? :tongue: What have to be done to have relationship without pain? Its possible at all? :shrug:

What is yours experience? Its not so easy, right? :rolleye:


Well learn the teachings so we can see thoroughly and really practice.

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NAMO AMITABHA
NAM MO A DI DA PHAT (VIETNAMESE)
NAMO AMITUOFO (CHINESE)

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―Listen! Those of you who devote yourselves to the Dharma
must not be afraid of losing your bodies and your lives―


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2011 5:53 pm 
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I think if you look at your partner as an ideal focal point to cultivate patience, generosity, compassion, etc. and truly try to love them in a way that is selfless-- you want what's best for them, not what satisfies yourself.. then you will naturally be reducing the sticky forms of attachment to them in subtle ways. Then, if you lose them because they leave you, you won't feel personal agony as much, as you'll be more focused on wishing them happiness in wherever their path leads them. This way the love is real, it doesn't depart or turn into aversion like often happens when relationships end in samsara. Likewise, if they die before you, it may still feel like great loss but having confidence in the teachings you will know you can still benefit them through making offerings on their behalf, aspiration prayers, certain mantras, making tsa tsas with their remains, etc. and you will have a way to continue to express your love and compassion for them, and truly benefit them. I think the more difficult obstacle may be if you die before your partner, --then the attachment to them if it is strong could cause difficulty in the bardo. So it is of course healthy to contemplate impermanence regularly as Namdrol already mentioned, so you are accustomed to the fact that you need to let go of everything- sooner or later-- even your own form and identity.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:37 am 
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wanderer wrote:
How to overcome attachment to our partner, lovers, wifes and husbands?

It is said that all beings have been your mothers countless times but that all have been your enemies countless times as well. They have killed and tortured you and they have loved you and you have loved them. So why prefer some to others?

wanderer wrote:
How to overcome fear of loss?

To recognize that there is nothing and nobody you ever possessed.

wanderer wrote:
How to overcome time of long separation and irationals doubts?

There has always been separation in that every individual being is thrown into the word "alone" and must leave behind everything at death. Resources do not help, relationships/friends do not help, the body does not help.
Doubt is suffering. Without beginning and end.

Kind regards


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:49 am 
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TMingyur wrote:
There has always been separation in that every individual being is thrown into the word "alone" and must leave behind everything at death.

Kind regards


This concept is oft repeated, but while I get the leaving everything/everyone behind at death part, I just don't see how we are thrown into the world alone. I mean, we start out in the womb of our mother, --that's pretty damn intimate. And after birth, we are cared for by our parents, shown great love and affection-- (with the exception of orphans and the rare few with sociopathic parents). How does that qualify as alone?

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:58 am 
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Adamantine wrote:
I mean, we start out in the womb of our mother, --that's pretty damn intimate. And after birth, we are cared for by our parents, shown great love and affection-- (with the exception of orphans and the rare few with sociopathic parents). How does that qualify as alone?


As soon as "having been thrown" is completed there is "getting progressively enmeshed". Once there is "enmeshment" there is delusion.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 6:06 am 
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TMingyur wrote:
Adamantine wrote:
I mean, we start out in the womb of our mother, --that's pretty damn intimate. And after birth, we are cared for by our parents, shown great love and affection-- (with the exception of orphans and the rare few with sociopathic parents). How does that qualify as alone?


As soon as "having been thrown" is completed there is "getting progressively enmeshed". Once there is "enmeshment" there is delusion.

Kind regards


This doesn't address the question.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:19 am 
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Adamantine wrote:
TMingyur wrote:
Adamantine wrote:
I mean, we start out in the womb of our mother, --that's pretty damn intimate. And after birth, we are cared for by our parents, shown great love and affection-- (with the exception of orphans and the rare few with sociopathic parents). How does that qualify as alone?


As soon as "having been thrown" is completed there is "getting progressively enmeshed". Once there is "enmeshment" there is delusion.

Kind regards


This doesn't address the question.


The reason why the question is not addressed is that it cannot be adressed. Why? It is because "alone" is just an expression countering delusive attachment to "not alone". Both "alone" and its opposite are based on the delusion of "I" and "mine" which is the ground on which the conventional language "of the world" rests.


Kind regards


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:24 am 
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TMingyur wrote:

The reason why the question is not addressed is that it cannot be adressed. Why? It is because "alone" is just an expression countering delusive attachment to "not alone". Both "alone" and its opposite are based on the delusion of "I" and "mine" which is the ground on which the conventional language "of the world" rests.


Kind regards


You're getting silly! All language is relative and conditional, obviously. You're the one that brought up the slogan and used the word "alone"! If you're ready to give up conventional language then stop posting here. Otherwise please try to be more direct in your responses.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:32 am 
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Adamantine wrote:
TMingyur wrote:

The reason why the question is not addressed is that it cannot be adressed. Why? It is because "alone" is just an expression countering delusive attachment to "not alone". Both "alone" and its opposite are based on the delusion of "I" and "mine" which is the ground on which the conventional language "of the world" rests.


Kind regards


You're getting silly! All language is relative and conditional, obviously. You're the one that brought up the slogan and used the word "alone"! If you're ready to give up conventional language then stop posting here. Otherwise please try to be more direct in your responses.


Well obviously you have no issue with "I" and "mine" in the context of death because you readily accept "leaving everything/everyone behind at death part". I do not have issue with it either because it complies with the view of the world and is conducive.

But if you accept to have to "leave alone" (which is the meaning of leaving all behind) why would you insist that "arriving alone" does not apply?

So you think that you "arrive in the world together with others" but at death you leave the others behind?

Kind regards


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:33 am 
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TMingyur wrote:

So you think that you "arrive in the world together with others" but at death you leave the others behind?



Sure. Because at the time of death all the people and things one has developed relationship with in the course of a life are left behind, in the relative experience. But when one "arrives" in the world, one has already gone through the death of the prior life--and been ripped away from all the loved ones of that incarnation. That terrible quality of loss and loneliness is past, while at the time of conception, one feels desire for one of the parents which indicates a significant karmic link already. During development in the womb, one resides in the psychic and physical field of the mother, almost sharing aspects of her experience and emotions, as well as her food. This in a way is a reuniting of oneself and a previous karmic relationship, so it is not authentically 'alone' in the conventional sense. Then when born one is further reunited with the other family members who one has undoubtedly been involved with in prior lives as well. How does that essentially qualify as alone? And then of course there are cases of twins, triplets, quintuplets, etc. all of which are increasing in frequency in this age of modern fertility treatments.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:47 am 
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Adamantine wrote:
But when one "arrives" in the world, one has already gone through the death of the prior life--and been ripped away from all the loved ones of that incarnation.

And that is exactly why you "arrive alone".

Adamantine wrote:
... one feels desire for one of the parents which indicates a significant karmic link already.

"One has desire for" meaning "one is separate from that which one desires" meaning "alone" "being separate".
This desire is an instance of "getting enmeshed".

Adamantine wrote:
...This in a way is a reuniting of oneself ... Then when born one is further reunited with the other family members who one has undoubtedly been involved with in prior lives as well. How does that essentially qualify as alone?

The thought "Reuniting" is based on "being seperate" in the first place. "being separate" is the meaning of "being alone". Please note "being alone" it appears that this is sometimes mentally confused with "feeling alone" which is not the topic here.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:16 am 
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TMingyur wrote:
Adamantine wrote:
But when one "arrives" in the world, one has already gone through the death of the prior life--and been ripped away from all the loved ones of that incarnation.

And that is exactly why you "arrive alone".


"One has desire for" meaning "one is separate from that which one desires" meaning "alone" "being separate".
This desire is an instance of "getting enmeshed".

Adamantine wrote:
...This in a way is a reuniting of oneself ... Then when born one is further reunited with the other family members who one has undoubtedly been involved with in prior lives as well. How does that essentially qualify as alone?

The thought "Reuniting" is based on "being seperate" in the first place. "being separate" is the meaning of "being alone". Please note "being alone" it appears that this is sometimes mentally confused with "feeling alone" which is not the topic here.



I don't really follow your logic. Yes, you are alone in the bardo, but only up until the moment of conception: then you are reunited with your new parents. So no longer alone. Then, after 9 months one is born and one is officially 'entering the world', and one is further united with other karmic connections. So at the point of birth one has already been united with father and mother and been inseparable from mother for 9 months. If one is a twin, a triplet or a quintuplet, then one is inseparable from mother and brother/s or sister/s for 9 months. So not alone. Anyway, this is greatly veering off topic, but I am guessing you see my point by now.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:09 pm 
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Adamantine wrote:
TMingyur wrote:
Adamantine wrote:
But when one "arrives" in the world, one has already gone through the death of the prior life--and been ripped away from all the loved ones of that incarnation.

And that is exactly why you "arrive alone".


"One has desire for" meaning "one is separate from that which one desires" meaning "alone" "being separate".
This desire is an instance of "getting enmeshed".

Adamantine wrote:
...This in a way is a reuniting of oneself ... Then when born one is further reunited with the other family members who one has undoubtedly been involved with in prior lives as well. How does that essentially qualify as alone?

The thought "Reuniting" is based on "being seperate" in the first place. "being separate" is the meaning of "being alone". Please note "being alone" it appears that this is sometimes mentally confused with "feeling alone" which is not the topic here.



I don't really follow your logic. Yes, you are alone in the bardo, but only up until the moment of conception: then you are reunited with your new parents. So no longer alone. Then, after 9 months one is born and one is officially 'entering the world', and one is further united with other karmic connections. So at the point of birth one has already been united with father and mother and been inseparable from mother for 9 months. If one is a twin, a triplet or a quintuplet, then one is inseparable from mother and brother/s or sister/s for 9 months. So not alone. Anyway, this is greatly veering off topic, but I am guessing you see my point by now.


I cannot follow your logic either. Nevermind.

Kind regards


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:27 pm 
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wanderer wrote:
What have to be done to have relationship without pain? Its possible at all? :shrug:

Become enlightened. There is no other answer. Without being enlightened, there is suffering in everything. There is no escape from it except to put an end to all suffering.

Om mani padme hum
Keith


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 2:00 am 
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Even if it is mainly attachment, if you care for your partner it is a seed of compassion and love. So focus on the love aspect (love=wishing others to be happy) and compassion, and slowly spread it.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 8:49 am 
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wanderer wrote:
How to overcome attachment to our partner, lovers, wifes and husbands? How to overcome fear of loss? How to overcome time of long separation and irationals doubts?

Many of us (buddhists) have or had relationships and its seems to me, that relationship among others generates a lot of negative emotions (fear, jealousy, craving etc.) and a lot of tension. But still, there is basic need to have someone close, someone with whom we can share our feelings, problems and joys. Its like a basic need, similar to need of eating, sleeping and so on. Relationships just happen....:smile:

So, what is the way to built healthy-buddhist? relationship? :tongue: What have to be done to have relationship without pain? Its possible at all? :shrug:

What is yours experience? Its not so easy, right? :rolleye:




From personal experience.......

Any effort was always unsuccessful. Later the reason Ifound was that effort makes the Ego. And increased ego creates side problems.
The method that worked with me was that I diverted my mind to research on God and vipassana meditation.
intensity of fear, jealousy, craving seeds died down probabily because of decay or negligence or development of Wisdom to very very great extent,
I am yet not totally free from all these. But my increased awareness keeps me peaceful in almost all situations i face these days.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:19 pm 
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Ram:
"Any effort was always unsuccessful. Later the reason Ifound was that effort makes the Ego. And increased ego creates side problems."

Yes.
:namaste:




Identification: my feelings, my emotions, my bubble of the ocean. Then no compassion but passion.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:24 am 
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TMingyur wrote:
I cannot follow your logic either. Nevermind.

Kind regards


I've reflected on it some more and I do understand your points. I think the differences we've expressed are merely because we are discussing something on the level of relative, subjective, illusory experience-- and neither of us can really know what that experience is like coming into the world- - from the point of conception through actual birth. Unless, of course, we have intact memories of it. I don't and I assume most people don't. So we may both be correct, as different beings may experience birth in different ways, according to their karma. Some may feel terribly alone, some may feel greatly cared for and encompassed by others. I am assuming we are discussing the subjective experience of 'alone' and not the larger ontological status of self and other.

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