All Sentient Beings are equal?

General discussion, particularly exploring the Dharma in the modern world.
Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: All Sentient Beings are equal?

Post by Malcolm »

LastLegend wrote:Are all sentient beings equal? Based on what are they equal?

Is possible to discuss this?

What do you mean by "equal"?
User avatar
Grigoris
Former staff member
Posts: 21906
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: All Sentient Beings are equal?

Post by Grigoris »

Dexing wrote:All sentient beings are equal in their being deluded and ignorant. That is why they perceive each other as inferior or superior.
This is both true and false. Not all beings are deluded and ignorant: there are Mahasiddhas, Arhats and Bodhisattvas out there you know! :smile: The second part is true for beings that have not overcome dualism.
Buddhas perceive all sentient beings as equal even to a Buddha, insofar as they possess the virtuous qualities for the Tathāgata.
We can do this too with a little practice!
It is merely due to their habit of conceptualization and grasping that deluded sentient beings are ignorant of this and create all sorts of dualities and unnecessary suffering and difficulty.
Very true!
:namaste:
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
User avatar
DNS
Site Admin
Posts: 5251
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:23 pm
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada, Estados Unidos de América
Contact:

Re: All Sentient Beings are equal?

Post by DNS »

All equal, in that all have Buddha nature.

But . . . . there does appear to be some hierarchy:

Buddha / Arahant (Killing a Buddha is one of the offenses making you ineligible for enlightenment in this life and destined for a hell realm in the next)
Humans (a parajika offense requiring expulsion from the Order for killing a human)
Large, Royal animals, such as elephants, lions, tigers (not allowed to be eaten even if offered)
Smaller animals (their flesh may be eaten, if offered to monks, nuns)
Insects (no prohibition for building construction and farming even though they may be killed indirectly)

All result in negative karma, but the 'effects' appear to be less as you go down on the above list (in the harming and / or killing of the above).
User avatar
ground
Posts: 1782
Joined: Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:31 am

Re: All Sentient Beings are equal?

Post by ground »

All beings are equal to the extent of coming and going.


Kind regards
User avatar
KwanSeum
Posts: 129
Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2010 4:43 pm
Location: Leicester, UK
Contact:

Re: All Sentient Beings are equal?

Post by KwanSeum »

David N. Snyder wrote:All equal, in that all have Buddha nature.

But . . . . there does appear to be some hierarchy:

Buddha / Arahant (Killing a Buddha is one of the offenses making you ineligible for enlightenment in this life and destined for a hell realm in the next)
Humans (a parajika offense requiring expulsion from the Order for killing a human)
Large, Royal animals, such as elephants, lions, tigers (not allowed to be eaten even if offered)
Smaller animals (their flesh may be eaten, if offered to monks, nuns)
Insects (no prohibition for building construction and farming even though they may be killed indirectly)
There has to be rules in governing an organisation, even a Sangha. It would appear that there even has to be a hierarchy (head monk, senior monks, novice monks, laity) with different rules and expectations of them all. However, it does not imply that some are worth more than others or some are fundamentally different from others.

If I had two sons and one of them was brain damaged (either at birth or in an accident) would the brain damaged one be worth any less? We might treat him differently and make different plans for him but his value stays the same.
ram peswani
Posts: 245
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:53 am

Re: All Sentient Beings are equal?

Post by ram peswani »

LastLegend wrote:
Kyosan wrote:I'm not sure whether they are equal but if I understand the scriptures correctly, all sentient beings have the Buddha nature and all sentient beings hear the Buddha dharma.
Then why don't I see that a chicken is equal to me?
Lotus sutra has used a word "vehical"
If one separates ego one sees only a vehical ( developement and expansion of different bodies in physical body)
Vehical size of chicken is very small and that of human being is bigger. Every human also has different size of vehical.

http://www.dharmawheel.net/posting.php? ... 77&p=31603#" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
User avatar
Mr. G
Posts: 4080
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:36 am
Location: Spaceship Earth

Re: All Sentient Beings are equal?

Post by Mr. G »

ram peswani wrote:
LastLegend wrote:
Kyosan wrote:I'm not sure whether they are equal but if I understand the scriptures correctly, all sentient beings have the Buddha nature and all sentient beings hear the Buddha dharma.
Then why don't I see that a chicken is equal to me?
Lotus sutra has used a word "vehical"
If one separates ego one sees only a vehical ( developement and expansion of different bodies in physical body)
Vehical size of chicken is very small and that of human being is bigger. Every human also has different size of vehical.
How you are defining "vehicle" and how the Lotus Sutra uses it seem quite different.
  • How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu
User avatar
LastLegend
Posts: 5408
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:46 pm
Location: Northern Virginia

Re: All Sentient Beings are equal?

Post by LastLegend »

ram peswani wrote:
LastLegend wrote:
Kyosan wrote:I'm not sure whether they are equal but if I understand the scriptures correctly, all sentient beings have the Buddha nature and all sentient beings hear the Buddha dharma.
Then why don't I see that a chicken is equal to me?
Lotus sutra has used a word "vehical"
If one separates ego one sees only a vehical ( developement and expansion of different bodies in physical body)
Vehical size of chicken is very small and that of human being is bigger. Every human also has different size of vehical.

http://www.dharmawheel.net/posting.php? ... 77&p=31603#" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
A human can do more or has a better chance at becoming an Arhat, Bodhisattva, or Buddha. I think that's what vehicle means the way you described it. Also it has to do with forms-it is hard for a chicken or a cow to learn Buddhism. For a human, it is easier.
It’s eye blinking.
ram peswani
Posts: 245
Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:53 am

Re: All Sentient Beings are equal?

Post by ram peswani »

How you are defining "vehicle" and how the Lotus Sutra uses it seem quite different.[/quote]


I have english translation of Lotus sutra translated by Burton Watson

One of its contents says that a committee of members specialised in english, chineses and Buddhism sat and translated this book

It translates the title as sutra of one vehical and talks also of greater vehical
But the translators write that no where this vehical or greater vehical has been described and we are not clear about it

The answer can come in meditation only and words may not clarify it fully.....yet an attempt for you

We human beings take birth after birth
and add or subtract in each birth.

Now suppose i take up the thought that all is nothing or nil. I watch with awareness my anger and do not give it any strength with any emotion
I watch love etc etc. and do not react. This way i am giving strength to the thought that all is Nothing.
A stage comes where this "Nothing" comes automatically without your effort. I call this the transcedence of cosmic energy of Nothing. If You have
heard about LI Honzgi of Falun Dafa, he calls it cultivation.

This word Nothing has gone into a different deeper plane. But do not stop there. Go on giving power to this word and the Word will go on transcending
to deeper and deeper planes till it reaches a place where the Truth is Nothing or Suniya or Zero. This word might have travelled hundred planes deeper.
When one dies, he leaves physical body on earth . Goes on leaving other bodies of emotions after rewards or punishments, and then he travels thro Wisdoms ( (Truths on different planes) till he reaches Suniata or Nothingness. This is his vehicle that he has developed. He can come down and take any lower plane by
his choice subsequently.
As soon as one has acquired any truth which goes above "Ego Plane" he becomes a Buddha.
All Boddhisattvas do not jump to Buddhahood deliberately. They may collect more than one Truth in their existence to help more sentients.
There are many " truths" on different planes and vehicles capability of each sentient is different.

GREATER VEHICAL IS VERY VERY DIFFICULT , ONE CAN ATTACH ONES SMALL VEHICLE TO ANY bHODDHISATTVA LIKE AMITABHA BY CHANTING HIS NAME WITH FULL AWARENESS

ALL BUDDHAS ABIDE IN EMPTINESS AND FOLLOW THE PATH OF ON GREATER VEHICLE.

(
User avatar
KwanSeum
Posts: 129
Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2010 4:43 pm
Location: Leicester, UK
Contact:

Re: All Sentient Beings are equal?

Post by KwanSeum »

LastLegend wrote:
ram peswani wrote:
LastLegend wrote:A human can do more or has a better chance at becoming an Arhat, Bodhisattva, or Buddha. I think that's what vehicle means the way you described it. Also it has to do with forms-it is hard for a chicken or a cow to learn Buddhism. For a human, it is easier.
Easy for a human to learn the dharma? - hmm. Are you sure about that?
User avatar
LastLegend
Posts: 5408
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:46 pm
Location: Northern Virginia

Re: All Sentient Beings are equal?

Post by LastLegend »

KwanSeum wrote:Easy for a human to learn the dharma? - hmm. Are you sure about that?
Well not all human are willing to learn. But lets compare me as a person who's willing to learn Buddhism. So you think a cow can learn Buddhism better me? So our form as a human is a vehicle that has potential more than a cow.

So in relative to a cow, yes easy for a human to learn Buddhism.
It’s eye blinking.
User avatar
Madeliaette
Posts: 179
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:29 pm
Location: Currently in Sussex, England. Formerly in Wollongong, Australia.

Re: All Sentient Beings are equal?

Post by Madeliaette »

Having closely observed many pigeons for several years, I think some creatures other than human can learn/live Buddhism. (or maybe I just met a few Bodhisattvas in the form of pigeons....?) They might not have identical mental faculties, but they still have that SAME 'continuum' as humans - I truly believe that some creatures are more able than others to use their mental features more than we give them credit.
I view the spider in the corner, my son in his room, the Queen in her palace and the bird on the windowsill as EQUAL in rights to live and be happy - but not equal in shape, color, form, size, or mental/physical ability, etc. (I think the question of equality differs dependant on the 'WHAT' is equal or not factor...)
User avatar
LastLegend
Posts: 5408
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 3:46 pm
Location: Northern Virginia

Re: All Sentient Beings are equal?

Post by LastLegend »

Madeliaette wrote:Having closely observed many pigeons for several years, I think some creatures other than human can learn/live Buddhism. (or maybe I just met a few Bodhisattvas in the form of pigeons....?) They might not have identical mental faculties, but they still have that SAME 'continuum' as humans - I truly believe that some creatures are more able than others to use their mental features more than we give them credit.
I view the spider in the corner, my son in his room, the Queen in her palace and the bird on the windowsill as EQUAL in rights to live and be happy - but not equal in shape, color, form, size, or mental/physical ability, etc. (I think the question of equality differs dependant on the 'WHAT' is equal or not factor...)
There are cases of talking birds that have been reborn in Pure Land from reciting Amitabha.
It’s eye blinking.
User avatar
Thomas Amundsen
Posts: 2034
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:50 am
Location: Helena, MT
Contact:

Re: All Sentient Beings are equal?

Post by Thomas Amundsen »

LastLegend wrote:
Madeliaette wrote:Having closely observed many pigeons for several years, I think some creatures other than human can learn/live Buddhism. (or maybe I just met a few Bodhisattvas in the form of pigeons....?) They might not have identical mental faculties, but they still have that SAME 'continuum' as humans - I truly believe that some creatures are more able than others to use their mental features more than we give them credit.
I view the spider in the corner, my son in his room, the Queen in her palace and the bird on the windowsill as EQUAL in rights to live and be happy - but not equal in shape, color, form, size, or mental/physical ability, etc. (I think the question of equality differs dependant on the 'WHAT' is equal or not factor...)
There are cases of talking birds that have been reborn in Pure Land from reciting Amitabha.
:applause:
Karma Yeshe
Posts: 37
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2011 4:44 pm

Re: All Sentient Beings are equal?

Post by Karma Yeshe »

As I understand it -

Every sentient Being has Buddha Nature and thus the ability to progress to the point where they will become a fully Enlightened Being, a Buddha. also, because of the vast number of lives that we have all had, each and every Being that we come into contact with was, more than once, our mother. When looked at from this perspective we owe a great debt of thanks to all Beings and are thus reqiured to protect them from harm.

Certainly not evey Being has equal abilities in a realitive sense but an equal baseline starting point to become free of suffering.

What I find to be a difficult issue is this...

How far are we able to go the protect our Precious Human existance?

For example are we allowed to spray poisons to kill large numbers of insects or use mouse traps in a kitchen so that we do not become sick? And what steps should we take to help negate some of the Karma that we we aqiure for this type of action? Most troubleing of all, should we all be vegitarians expecialy in places like America and other developed contries that allow for a wide range of healthy food options without the need for meat?
What Is...What Was...What Could be...What must never Be.
The Doctor

Something Old...Something New...Something Borrowed...Something Blue.
Amy Pond
User avatar
Madeliaette
Posts: 179
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:29 pm
Location: Currently in Sussex, England. Formerly in Wollongong, Australia.

Re: All Sentient Beings are equal?

Post by Madeliaette »

For example are we allowed to spray poisons to kill large numbers of insects or use mouse traps in a kitchen so that we do not become sick? And what steps should we take to help negate some of the Karma that we we aqiure for this type of action? Most troubleing of all, should we all be vegitarians expecialy in places like America and other developed contries that allow for a wide range of healthy food options without the need for meat?
I expect it would depend on what type of Buddhist practice you do. Buddhism has personally changed me from bug over-spraying to bug loving, screaming at mice to photographing them and appreciating them, etc. Different people practice different ways and different methods - but I find it helpful to focus on strengthening my compassion with insects and creatures. (IMO, I feel that - in general - humankind has done more damage than good on the planet, whereas the lesser intelligent creatures seem to have caused less damage to our 'shared home'. This makes me feel that I should respect and learn to live with other forms of life rather than irradicate them.)
User avatar
KwanSeum
Posts: 129
Joined: Sat Nov 27, 2010 4:43 pm
Location: Leicester, UK
Contact:

Re: All Sentient Beings are equal?

Post by KwanSeum »

tomamundsen wrote:
KwanSeum wrote:
tamdrin wrote:Keep this in mind..
I believe it is worse karma to kill a human than to kill a fly... This would suggest that relatively all beings aren't equal..
Why would it be worse to kill a fly?
If you mean "why would it be worse than to kill a fly, I would say that a human has the possibility of achieving buddhahood in this very lifetime. Whereas the fly will have to be reborn to achieve that.
Does it follow then that for the majority of people (many of which aren't even striving for Buddhahood) who will not achieve buddhahood have a lower value than those who are either striving or who will or have achieved this?
User avatar
Grigoris
Former staff member
Posts: 21906
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: All Sentient Beings are equal?

Post by Grigoris »

Dualistic concepts of value (higher/lower) have no place within Buddhism. All sentient beings have been our mother (and will be) at some point in our endless cycling through samsara. As Bodhisattvas we should consider all sentient beings as higher than us and be willing to sacrifice even the flesh from our bodies for their well being! (Well that's the idea, anyway, I personally am still a long way off from that point, but the best we can do is try!)
:namaste:
Last edited by Grigoris on Sun Apr 24, 2011 3:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
User avatar
adinatha
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2011 4:07 am

Re: All Sentient Beings are equal?

Post by adinatha »

Sentient beings are not all equal, because of different capacities, fortunes, whether connected or disconnected to dharma, and, if so, their respective level of entry.
CAW!
User avatar
Thomas Amundsen
Posts: 2034
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:50 am
Location: Helena, MT
Contact:

Re: All Sentient Beings are equal?

Post by Thomas Amundsen »

KwanSeum wrote:Does it follow then that for the majority of people (many of which aren't even striving for Buddhahood) who will not achieve buddhahood have a lower value than those who are either striving or who will or have achieved this?
Oooooo, an interesting conjecture! Yes, I think so. I vaguely recall reading sutras talking about how it is a graver offense to kill a bodhisattva than a normal human.
Post Reply

Return to “Dharma in Everyday Life”