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What is Truth? - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

What is Truth?

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
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clw_uk
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Re: What is Truth?

Postby clw_uk » Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:05 am

Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken

kannada
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Re: What is Truth?

Postby kannada » Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:13 am

Last edited by kannada on Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
Just a view - nothing more...

kannada
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Re: What is Truth?

Postby kannada » Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:17 am

Just a view - nothing more...

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Prasadachitta
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Re: What is Truth?

Postby Prasadachitta » Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:49 am

"The earth is flat" is a completely different kind of statement than "Murder is wrong".

"Flat" is well defined and"wrong" is not

Murder is abstract and could apply to many different events.

The earth is specific and well recognized.

The communication of what is true requires a defined or agreed upon paradigm.

Knowing and seeing what is true for yourself does not.

be well all

Gabe
"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332

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Modus.Ponens
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Re: What is Truth?

Postby Modus.Ponens » Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:34 am

He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.'
(Jhana Sutta - Thanissaro Bhikkhu translation)

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David N. Snyder
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Re: What is Truth?

Postby David N. Snyder » Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:51 am

Image




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Modus.Ponens
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Re: What is Truth?

Postby Modus.Ponens » Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:54 am

:jumping:
He turns his mind away from those phenomena, and having done so, inclines his mind to the property of deathlessness: 'This is peace, this is exquisite — the resolution of all fabrications; the relinquishment of all acquisitions; the ending of craving; dispassion; cessation; Unbinding.'
(Jhana Sutta - Thanissaro Bhikkhu translation)

Individual
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Re: What is Truth?

Postby Individual » Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:59 pm

The best things in life aren't things.


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pink_trike
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Re: What is Truth?

Postby pink_trike » Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:33 pm

Truth can't be articulated accurately and fully, it can only be recognized/actualized.
Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

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Dan74
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Re: What is Truth?

Postby Dan74 » Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:40 am

In Mathematical Logic, there is a precise definition of "truth". You need a system of axioms (a priori assumptions) and logical rules for deriving new statements from these axioms (like "if A, then B" and "if B, then C" implies "if A then C"), then a statement is true if it can be derived from the axioms using the logical rules.

So a simple example is if we accept the statement that "if it rains, then the ground is wet", and it is raining, the statement "it is wet" must be true (this is not very precise).

So in Mathematical Logic, truth is very much a relative thing - it is relative to the system of assumptions and the rules of deduction. I think often people argue as nauseaum because their assumptions are different, or they mean different things - so the statements are not made precise.

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zavk
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Re: What is Truth?

Postby zavk » Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:28 am

With metta,
zavk

kannada
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Re: What is Truth?

Postby kannada » Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:31 am

Just a view - nothing more...

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Dan74
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Re: What is Truth?

Postby Dan74 » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:22 am

Yes, I agree.

To expand on what you've said, I wouldn't try to force the Dharma into some formal logical structure, simply because I see it as much more of a practical guide than a statement of some ultimate truth.

Also annata is not quite "A is not A". I think what a lot of people do is confuse the conventional and ultimate categories. Annata (like shunyata in general) is simply a critique of believing abstract notions to be real, or reifying. So Dan74 is a convenient designation. There is nothing wrong in accepting and using this designation appropriately. What's wrong is going around believing it to be an actual entity, existing in its own right, in other words a self.

So I don't think Buddhism is illogical, in the sense of going against logic. It just operates on many other levels.

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kannada
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Re: What is Truth?

Postby kannada » Tue Sep 29, 2009 11:46 am

Just a view - nothing more...

mindfullmom
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Re: What is Truth?

Postby mindfullmom » Tue Sep 29, 2009 6:36 pm


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Wizard in the Forest
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Re: What is Truth?

Postby Wizard in the Forest » Thu Dec 09, 2010 8:23 am

I think people are confusing the Buddha with Sañjaya Belaṭṭhaputta who was a skeptic, relativist agnostic existentialist, amoral pluralist in the Buddha's time. His theories of moral relativity, existential relativity, and agnosticism were called "Eel wriggling" by the Buddha and were refuted. Why then do people take the Buddha to be an agnostic, relativist, moral pluralist?

The Buddha did not say that truth did not exist, while he pointed out the failures of the conventions of language. Ideas like 'actions have consequences'; 'behavior founded in greed, hatred and delusion produces misery'; 'becoming less attached we become more creative'; are simply descriptions of the way the world actually works. They give us a basis for a system of values which are not arbitrary. They are truths.
"One is not born a woman, but becomes one."- Simone de Beauvoir

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Cloud
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Re: What is Truth?

Postby Cloud » Thu Dec 09, 2010 9:02 am

Truth is that which one can verify through direct experience. Truths can be put into words, but must be verified to hold any meaning. This is our path. :)

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m0rl0ck
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Re: What is Truth?

Postby m0rl0ck » Thu Dec 09, 2010 5:47 pm

Looking for ultimate truth using conditional concepts is like looking for darkness using a flashlight. Its a game philosophers play and is nothing but a distraction from the real matter at hand.
“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig

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Wizard in the Forest
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Re: What is Truth?

Postby Wizard in the Forest » Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:49 pm

Read the

Truth is obtainable.
"One is not born a woman, but becomes one."- Simone de Beauvoir

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Donuts Dad
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Re: What is Truth?

Postby Donuts Dad » Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:09 am

Vladimir Nabokov said something like, "Reality is a word that has no meaning without quotation marks." Real for me might be subtly or drastically different from what real is to someone else. Sure, mathematics can describe an objective truth, but describing is not proving.


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