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Thanissaro Bhikkhu - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

Thanissaro Bhikkhu

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
scarface
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Re: Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby scarface » Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:32 pm


scarface
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Re: Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby scarface » Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:45 pm

...and before anyone says that this is the interpretation Thanissaro forces on the Thai Ajahns then I will offer some quotes from Ajahn Chah, Ajaan Lee, and Ajahn Maha Boowa that indicate that they regard them as meditative techniques that take you to the goal and nothing more:

"The original heart / mind shines like pure, clear water with the sweetest taste. But if the heart is pure, is our practice over? No, we must not cling even to this purity. We must go beyond all duality, all concepts, all bad, all good, all pure, all impure. We must go beyond self and no self, beyond birth and death. To see a self to be reborn is the real trouble of the world. True purity is limitless, untouchable, beyond all opposites and all creation."

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/giftoflov ... sage/12113

"Atta-Anatta are Dhammas that are paired off together until the ultimate limit of the mundane relative world (Sammuti) — until the Citta is free from the Kilesas and has become a special Citta, a special person. Atta and Anatta then disappear of themselves and there is no need to drive any of them out anywhere, for there is just the purity of the Citta entire which is "Eka-Citta," "Eka-Dhamma" [25] — no duality with anything further.
The word Anatta is a factor (Dhamma) of the Ti-Lakkhana [26] and someone who aims for purity, freedom and Nibbana should contemplate "Aniccam, Dukkham, Anatta" until they see and understand these Ti-Lakkhana clearly. Then it may be said that the Citta has "well gone free." Because Nibbana is not Anatta, for how can one force it to be Anatta which is one of the Ti-Lakkhana, which are the path for getting to Nibbana?"

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai ... ondon.html

"We may decide that nibbana is extinguished; that nibbana is null and void; that nibbana has no birth, aging, illness, or death; that nibbana is the self; or that nibbana is not-self. Actually, each of these expressions is neither right nor wrong. Right and wrong belong to the person speaking, because nibbana is something untouched by supposing. No matter what anyone may call it, it simply stays as it is. If we were to call it heaven or a Brahma world, it wouldn't object, just as we suppose names for "sun" and "moon": If we were to call them stars or clouds or worlds or jewels, whatever they really are stays as it is; they aren't transformed by our words. At the same time, they themselves don't announce that they are sun or moon or anything. They are thiti-dhamma — they simply are what they are."


http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai ... html#p2-29

The Commentary's treatment of this discourse is very peculiar. To begin with, it delineates three other "All's" in addition to the one defined here, one of them supposedly larger in scope than the one defined here: the Allness of the Buddha's omniscience (literally, All-knowingness). This, despite the fact that the discourse says that the description of such an all lies beyond the range of explanation.
Secondly, the Commentary includes nibbana (unbinding) within the scope of the All described here — as a dhamma, or object of the intellect — even though there are many other discourses in the Canon specifically stating that nibbana lies beyond the range of the six senses and their objects. Sn 5.6, for instance, indicates that a person who has attained nibbana has gone beyond all phenomena (sabbe dhamma), and therefore cannot be described. MN 49 discusses a "consciousness without feature" (viññanam anidassanam) that does not partake of the "Allness of the All." Furthermore, the following discourse (SN 35.24) says that the "All" is to be abandoned. At no point does the Canon say that nibbana is to be abandoned. Nibbana follows on cessation (nirodha), which is to be realized. Once nibbana is realized, there are no further tasks to be done.

Thus it seems more this discourse's discussion of "All" is meant to limit the use of the word "all" throughout the Buddha's teachings to the six sense spheres and their objects. As the following discourse shows, this would also include the consciousness, contact, and feelings connected with the sense spheres and their objects. Nibbana would lie outside of the word, "all." This would fit in with another point made several times in the Canon: that dispassion is the highest of all dhammas (Iti 90), while the arahant has gone beyond even dispassion (Sn 4.6; Sn 4.10).

This raises the question, if the word "all" does not include nibbana, does that mean that one may infer from the statement, "all phenomena are not-self" that nibbana is self? The answer is no. As AN 4.174 states, to even ask if there is anything remaining or not remaining (or both, or neither) after the cessation of the six sense spheres is to differentiate what is by nature undifferentiated (or to complicate the uncomplicated — see the Introduction to MN 18). The range of differentiation goes only as far as the "All." Perceptions of self or not-self, which would count as differentiation, would not apply beyond the "All." When the cessation of the "All" is experienced, all differentiation is allayed.

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

Reductor
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Re: Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby Reductor » Mon Sep 21, 2009 7:57 am

If you take you, subtract out all the things which are inconstant and stressful, what is left?

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Thanavuddho
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Re: Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby Thanavuddho » Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:17 am

“Tasmātihānanda, attadīpā viharatha attasaraṇā anaññasaraṇā, dhammadīpā dhammasaraṇā anaññasaraṇā.”(DN16)
Forum: http://www.avoinsangha.fi

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piotr
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Re: Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby piotr » Fri Sep 25, 2009 5:55 am

Hi, :smile:

As for bhante Thanissaro's take on anatta, take a look at his teachings from recent retreat in Vancouver:

http://dhammatalks.org/Archive/Retreats ... Audio.html

This seems to be one of the most comprehensive expositions on this topic, which leaves no doubt about bhante Thanissaro's position.
Bhagavaṃmūlakā no, bhante, dhammā...

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retrofuturist
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Re: Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:13 am

Greetings Piotr,

Can you give us the gist of what is contained in the talks? Maybe a sentence or two?

(I can't access audio files from my current location) ;)

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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piotr
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Re: Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby piotr » Fri Sep 25, 2009 6:39 am

Bhagavaṃmūlakā no, bhante, dhammā...

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manas
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Re: Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby manas » Tue Aug 03, 2010 11:29 pm

I found this excerpt from Alagaddupama Sutta: The Water-Snake Simile
:
"And how is a monk a noble one with banner lowered, burden placed down, unfettered? There is the case where a monk's conceit 'I am' is abandoned, its root destroyed, made like a palmyra stump, deprived of the conditions of development, not destined for future arising. This is how a monk is a noble one with banner lowered, burden placed down, unfettered.

"And when the devas, together with Indra, the Brahmas, & Pajapati, search for the monk whose mind is thus released, they cannot find that 'The consciousness of the one truly gone (tathagata) [11] is dependent on this.' Why is that? The one truly gone is untraceable even in the here & now. [12]

"Speaking in this way, teaching in this way, I have been erroneously, vainly, falsely, unfactually misrepresented by some brahmans and contemplatives [who say], 'Gotama the contemplative is one who misleads. He declares the annihilation, destruction, extermination of the existing being.' But as I am not that, as I do not say that, so I have been erroneously, vainly, falsely, unfactually misrepresented by those venerable brahmans and contemplatives [who say], 'Gotama the contemplative is one who misleads. He declares the annihilation, destruction, extermination of the existing being.' [13]

"Both formerly and now, monks, I declare only stress and the cessation of stress. [14] And if others insult, abuse, taunt, bother, & harass the Tathagata for that, he feels no hatred, no resentment, no dissatisfaction of heart because of that. And if others honor, respect, revere, & venerate the Tathagata for that, he feels no joy, no happiness, no elation of heart because of that. And if others honor, respect, revere, & venerate the Tathagata for that, he thinks, 'They do me such service at this that has already been comprehended.' [15]

In this excerpt, the Buddha appears to be very clearly distancing himself here from annihilationists, not praising them in the slightest, and is promoting the Dhamma as somthing to be practically applied, for one's own and others' welfare, for the easing of stress. After reading it I will no longer try to excessively ponder what happens after final Nibbana, because my intellect with undoubtably get it wrong! :anjali:
Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

chandrafabian
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Re: Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby chandrafabian » Fri Aug 06, 2010 2:35 pm


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Zom
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Re: Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby Zom » Fri Aug 06, 2010 3:08 pm


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beeblebrox
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Re: Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby beeblebrox » Fri Aug 06, 2010 4:19 pm


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IanAnd
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Re: Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby IanAnd » Fri Aug 06, 2010 5:24 pm

"The gift of truth exceeds all other gifts" — Dhammapada, v. 354 Craving XXIV

chandrafabian
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Re: Thanissaro Bhikkhu

Postby chandrafabian » Sat Aug 07, 2010 6:16 am



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