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where to go from here? - Page 2 - Dhamma Wheel

where to go from here?

A discussion on all aspects of Theravāda Buddhism
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Ben
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Re: where to go from here?

Postby Ben » Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:46 am

Again, I say they are different. Love, as it is 'practiced' (for want of a better word), or experienced by the vast majority of humanity is, as I said, a sankhara. Its a combination of thoughts, sensations, mind-states that coalesce to give the impression of the state of 'love'. The dhammas that constitute love are not necessarily wholesome, including lust, attachment and aversion (of love's ending). Love might feel good, but that doesn't mean that it is necessarily wholesome or good. On the other hand, metta is not characterised by lust, attachment or aversion and it can only arise when those mental factors are not present. Its a different kettle of fish, Christopher. In fact I contend its not even on the same spectrum.
Kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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christopher:::
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Re: where to go from here?

Postby christopher::: » Thu Sep 10, 2009 7:57 am

Hi Ben. I don't disagree about the differences, just tend to think the brahama viharas are practiced rather widely around the world... mothers, fathers and their kids, grandkids and grandparents, long married couples, solid friendships, positive teacher/student situations, all good relationships.

If it's a good relationship, if there is more happiness in your relations then pain, that's a sign something right is going on...

Just my personal opinion- related though to something rather wise that you said a little while back, lol...

:namaste:
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009

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tiltbillings
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Re: where to go from here?

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:13 am


Individual
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Re: where to go from here?

Postby Individual » Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:16 am

The best things in life aren't things.


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christopher:::
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Re: where to go from here?

Postby christopher::: » Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:43 am

"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009

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tiltbillings
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Re: where to go from here?

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Sep 10, 2009 8:59 am


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christopher:::
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Re: where to go from here?

Postby christopher::: » Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:07 am

We're veering waaaay off topic, Tilt, concerning Manapa's future. And to say "i tend to think" is not a claim....
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009

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Cittasanto
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Re: where to go from here?

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:14 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Cittasanto
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Re: where to go from here?

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:32 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

Individual
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Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:19 am

Re: where to go from here?

Postby Individual » Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:10 am

The best things in life aren't things.


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Cittasanto
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Re: where to go from here?

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:51 am

Hi Individual,
I did say yet! :smile:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .wlsh.html
but my wish to become a monk is not to teach what I have not lived,
not to teach because I think I can,
not to be a donkey, shouting I am a cow,
but rather to live the holy life to the end.

The reason I chose to get into a relationship rather than further develop in a monastic setting was because I believed I may be able to have it both ways, as in progress on the path and have a companion to share my life with, this was a hope which turned out not to fit into reality, I fell in Love and the relationship ddidn't work out, and I didn't progress more than I would of not in a relationship, I don't think, and maybe less than I would of if I had kept my old life and practice (?).


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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retrofuturist
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Re: where to go from here?

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Sep 10, 2009 10:59 am

Greetings Manapa,

You come across very sound of mind, and I'm very excited for you.

I believe this is called mudita!

:thumbsup:

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

EOD
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Re: where to go from here?

Postby EOD » Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:05 am


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Cittasanto
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Re: where to go from here?

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:37 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Cittasanto
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Re: where to go from here?

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:39 am

and incase anyone is wondering I am online as this seams to be a safe place, and more appropriate to focus my attention than the pain, no point getting myself angry about my situation, possibly better to move on emotionally atleast.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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retrofuturist
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: where to go from here?

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:40 am

It's the eight worldly winds, my friend.

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

User avatar
Cittasanto
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Re: where to go from here?

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:54 am



He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

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Guy
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Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: where to go from here?

Postby Guy » Thu Sep 10, 2009 11:58 am

Hi Manapa,

I wish you all the best on your spiritual quest!

With Metta,

Guy
Four types of letting go:

1) Giving; expecting nothing back in return
2) Throwing things away
3) Contentment; wanting to be here, not wanting to be anywhere else
4) "Teflon Mind"; having a mind which doesn't accumulate things

- Ajahn Brahm

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Cittasanto
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Re: where to go from here?

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:06 pm

Thank-you guy,
I have just changed my signature to make it more applicable to me, rather than having quotes I found useful to remember.


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

being5
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 9:58 am

Re: where to go from here?

Postby being5 » Thu Sep 10, 2009 9:46 pm

Hello All,

Manapa I'm sorry for the pain you are feeling. The subjects you raised are ones I am working with (or trying to) for some time now.

It seems to me that the nub of the problem is that until we have experienced anatta in our own being and so relinquished attachment we only know about it through having heard, read, understood and accepted intellectually that it is to be done.
That is to say, we want to be unattached but are not. We may see the causes of our suffering but still get caught in them.

My understanding is that the full experience of anatta and subsequent relinquishment of self comes with stream entry.
You won't be surprised to hear that I am not a stream enterer.

So, until then, how to proceed. Continue to practise - but many times, when in the grip of some upset such as you are experiencing, practising becomes almost impossible. One sits there and just gets in a lather trying to observe the lather one is in. This probably generates an even bigger lather for the future. How to sit with those excoriating feelings ripping through you.

being5


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