What is precept substance?

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What is precept substance?

Postby Inge » Sun Mar 13, 2011 11:40 pm

"Within the precept conduct, there are exceptions, "coverings," upholding and violations. There are instances in which we are supposed to do something and instances in which we are not supposed to do something. There are also exceptions and within these exceptions there are instances in which we cannot do some things. All of these comprise the precept mark, which we have to learn. In short, we obtain the precept substance because we have faith and understanding in the dharma of the precepts. When the precept substance acts upon our body, mouth, and mind, that is known as the precept conduct. And when we achieve the perfect, unobstructed Middle Way, then it is called the perfect precept mark. Thus the principles of faith, understanding, practice, and realization discussed in Buddhism can be used to explain the precepts."

From a lecture by Bhikshu Heng Lyu Shi in the morning of Thursday, August 31, 2000, during the Lay Bodhisattva Precepts Class - http://www.drbachinese.org/vbs/publish/ ... 71p031.htm

What is this precepts substance? Is it transmitted from the preceptor? Is it an object? Does it belong to the five aggregates?
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Re: What is precept substance?

Postby Will » Mon Mar 14, 2011 1:21 am

Inge: What is this precepts substance? Is it transmitted from the preceptor? Is it an object? Does it belong to the five aggregates?


It is some of the vital wisdom-compassion-power of the Preceptor. Yes, it is given by the Preceptor. It is not visible to the eye, but is an auric energy. Not sure about the last question. I would think it is not limited in its source or affect to the 5 aggregrates.
Only consider helping others and forget yourself. Master Hsuan Hua
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Re: What is precept substance?

Postby Astus » Mon Mar 14, 2011 10:41 am

Here's a discussion partially involving the precept substance (戒體) at H-Buddhism:
Starts here and look for the same subject throughout the month. It elucidates a few things about it for sure, including its origin and some later developments.

The very useful series Buddhism in a Nutshell summarises it as "those 'not-to-do' precepts". You can find a modern description in Zhenhua's In Search of the Dharma: memoirs of a modern Chinese Buddhist pilgrim.

Xuanhua seems to teach the precept-substance as an actual thing, which appears to me as the common view in modern EA Buddhism:

"The Handbook of Bodhisattva Precepts for the Laity speaks of the unconditioned substance of precepts. The Dharma Master for the Bodhisattva Precepts will say: "All disciples of the Buddha, since all of you can bring forth these fourteen deep, vast vows, I now ascend the seat and bow on behalf of all of you, to respectfully invite the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas of the ten directions to transmit to you the perfect substance of the precepts." That is known as the precept substance. This is the most important time for you during the precept transmission. It's when you receive the substance of the precepts.

Everyone should read this section, so that when the time comes you can contemplate accordingly to receive this superior precept substance.

After producing faith and understanding, when we receive the precepts, we have to truly and sincerely place the six major and twenty-eight minor precepts in our minds, so that we can stop evil and avoid wrongdoing. We should put into practice the dharma of the precepts. We should not do what we are not supposed to do. Even when we dream, we should tell ourselves that it's not permissible to do such and such a thing. That power comes from the precept substance. We have that power if we have truly received the substance of the precepts. Once we have the precept substance, we will gain a kind of strength in our body, mouth and mind. There is a change in our conduct and demeanor. Even when we are dreaming, our thoughts and our behavior are not the same as before; this is known as the precept conduct. "

He also says at another place,

"Lay people who like to receive precepts must request them from an ordained monk. To transmit precepts means to give the precept substance to the preceptees. The person who transmits the precept substance to you must be a Bhikshu. In the Vinaya, a Bhikshuni is not permitted to transmit precepts."
"There is no such thing as the real mind. Ridding yourself of delusion: that's the real mind."
(Sheng-yen: Getting the Buddha Mind, p 73)

"Neither cultivation nor seated meditation — this is the pure Chan of Tathagata."
(Mazu Daoyi, X1321p3b23; tr. Jinhua Jia)

“Don’t rashly seek the true Buddha;
True Buddha can’t be found.
Does marvelous nature and spirit
Need tempering or refinement?
Mind is this mind carefree;
This face, the face at birth."

(Nanyue Mingzan: Enjoying the Way, tr. Jeff Shore; T2076p461b24-26)
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Re: What is precept substance?

Postby Pema Rigdzin » Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:15 am

I've never heard of this "precept substance" as you guys are speaking of it. I have heard of some Abidharma systems considering the vows received to constitute a subtle "form" and thus be included within the aggregate of form. My understanding of the thinking behind this is that the power of generating the intention to keep the vows and the ever-strengthening habit of keeping them creates a sort of driving force behind the actions of one's body, speech, and mind. A powerful momentum, if you will. This is at least my understanding. Of course, there are also the blessings of the Three Jewels - in other words the powerful enlightened influence that somehow "rubs off" on us - that affect us much the way the charisma of a charming person can be infectious to us.
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Re: What is precept substance?

Postby Will » Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:21 am

The Vaibhasika school said vows have form, perhaps that form or substance is the same as the "precept substance".
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