Practice and Faith

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Astus
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Practice and Faith

Postby Astus » Mon Feb 28, 2011 1:50 pm

Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



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Indrajala
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Re: Practice and Faith

Postby Indrajala » Thu Mar 10, 2011 4:39 pm

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

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Astus
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Re: Practice and Faith

Postby Astus » Thu Mar 10, 2011 5:11 pm

"When I started to see how this physical world really could be all but a manifestation of mental activity, the reality of deva, deva-loka, arupa-loka and transcendental dharma guardians became apparent."

Happened in a similar way to me, it's just that I was reading "Pure Land Buddhism: Dialogs with Ancient Masters" () when the implications of mind only and its relation to buddha-lands and such started to be clear to me, IIRC.
Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



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mindyourmind
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Re: Practice and Faith

Postby mindyourmind » Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:48 am

Dualism is the real root of our suffering and all of our conflicts.

Namkhai Norbu

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Indrajala
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Re: Practice and Faith

Postby Indrajala » Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:07 pm

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

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Astus
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Re: Practice and Faith

Postby Astus » Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:38 pm

I think it is all right to have Buddhism as a hobby. Isn't that a great entertainment? I think this has been like this ever since, a number of higher class lay people (and possibly monastics too) used Buddhism simply for their intellectual and spiritual amusement without any religious fervour. We could even call this an entry stage. The question is if this hobby form is something that may lead some to get really involved and take refuge in their heart or not? I believe the answer is positive thus it is fine to spread some kind of "Zen Lite" among the masses, i.e. the path of men and gods (same as the Zen of outsiders and ordinary people).
Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



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Indrajala
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Re: Practice and Faith

Postby Indrajala » Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:40 pm

tad etat sarvajñānaṃ karuṇāmūlaṃ bodhicittahetukam upāyaparyavasānam iti |

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Astus
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Re: Practice and Faith

Postby Astus » Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:45 pm

If there are no teachers of hobby Buddhism how could anyone learn about it? Or, you could simply say that it is just normal that it's hard to find a teacher with high qualities.
Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



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Lazy_eye
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Re: Practice and Faith

Postby Lazy_eye » Fri Mar 11, 2011 12:50 pm


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mindyourmind
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Re: Practice and Faith

Postby mindyourmind » Fri Mar 11, 2011 2:05 pm

Dualism is the real root of our suffering and all of our conflicts.

Namkhai Norbu

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Re: Practice and Faith

Postby DGA » Fri Mar 11, 2011 2:32 pm

Right now I'm writing a dissertation proposal for a Ph.D. in Cultural Studies on the topic of Western Buddhism. Specifically, the discourse, practice, and manufacture of the 'mindfulness' business: in institutions, in the marketplace, at work, and so on. I think it's a significant phenomenon for North American culture generally (probably for Europe too).

I don't know if it's good or bad. I'm interested in getting to the bottom of how it works, what people are really doing with it, how much money is made by it, and so on.

That said, the tendency to divorce "practice' from "faith" is one of the first characteristics, though, and from a Buddhist position (rather than a cultural historian's position), I find this to be counterproductive unless it's an upaya to draw people toward practice with faith somehow. I'm not ready to say one way or the other if it is or if it isn't, or if it may be a mixed aggregate.

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Re: Practice and Faith

Postby Lazy_eye » Fri Mar 11, 2011 3:53 pm


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mindyourmind
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Re: Practice and Faith

Postby mindyourmind » Sat Mar 12, 2011 7:33 am

Dualism is the real root of our suffering and all of our conflicts.

Namkhai Norbu

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ground
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Re: Practice and Faith

Postby ground » Sat Mar 12, 2011 4:54 pm

Having been put off repeatedly by so called "Zen" practitioners I rejoice in the quotation delivered with the OP and your responses. Really it makes my happy to learn to appreciate this tradition which used to appear so distorted through the conduct of these fellow beings.

kind regards

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Re: Practice and Faith

Postby zengammon » Sun Mar 13, 2011 12:57 am

[i]Is there any change in this attitude in the West in recent years? Will it ever change? Or is it important not to mention anything resembling a religion when advertising Zen (Buddhism) to Westerners?[/i]

Thanks Astus and Huseng.

When Westerners ask me about Zen (Seon) I do avoid Religion, mostly because they get so upset about it. I'm not trying to convince them of anything anyway, and no one can be persuaded to walk this long path, so I just make it painless for them. And I came down a similar path to the one Huseng describes, so I allow these people their own path. How do I know where it is going?

To me, their questions are mostly like the turtle and fish story of Ajahn Dune, not answerable in the context that they insist on. (posted below for those who don't know the story)

And--if my western friends knew that I think science is just as much a religion as buddhism they would really have a melt down.


"One day, when a turtle came down into the water, it told a group of fish about how much fun it was to be on land: The lights and colors were pretty, and there were none of the difficulties that came from being in the water.

"The fish were intrigued, and wanted to see what it was like on land, so they asked the turtle, 'Is it very deep on land?'

"The turtle answered, 'What would be deep about it? It's land.'

"The fish: 'Are there lots of waves on land?'

"The turtle: 'What would be wavy about it? It's land.'

"The fish: 'Is it murky with mud?'

"The turtle: 'What would be murky about it? It's land.'

(excerpted from 'Gifts He Left Behind')


thankful to be learning and practicing in the East,
john (from California)

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Astus
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Re: Practice and Faith

Postby Astus » Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:41 pm

Ven. Sheng-yen on Prayer

Sakyamuni did not teach his disciples to pray to a deity, to God, or even to the Buddha himself or another, for help or salvation. He encoraged sentient beings to help themselves as well as others. ... When people sincerely pray to deities, bodhisattvas, or even God, they will be helped or appeased. But the response to the prayers does not come from the deities, bodhisattvas or God. It comes in part from the mental power of the person seeking help, and it also comes from the collective power of all the people seeking help from a particular deity or bodhisattva. When a sufficient number of people sincerely seek help from a bodhisattva or deity, power will manifest, whether or not the bodhisattva or deity exists. It happens. People seek help, and their prayers and answered.
(Zen Wisdom: Knowing and Doing, p. 215, 217)

When someone prays, his faith engenders a mental state of supernormal, unified concentration, by which he can stimulate or arouse the compassionate vow-energy of the beings (such as Buddhas or bodhisattvas) to whom he prays, and thereby receive a response. That is, the mental energy resulting from the supplicant's concentration tallies and interacts with the energy of a Buddha's or bodhisattva's vows. This interaction, in turn, gives rise to an inconceivable, extraordinary power, which produces the special experiences and efficacious results of prayer.
(Orthodox Chinese Buddhism, p. 51)

Recitation, or prayer, is another element of the Chan practice that I teach. The power of prayer cannot be explained by psychology or science. When we pray, we generate power. In Buddhism, we say the relationship between the person who prays and the object of prayer is like the relationship between a bell and the person who rings the bell, or a mirror and the person standing in front of the mirror. Then bell won't ring without someone to ring it. The mirror does not make a reflection without someone standing in front of it. The being - the object of prayer - can only have pwer if people have faith in it. It's the same as in Christianity. You are saved only if you have faith. On this level, the faith in Buddhism is no different from that in Western religion. Faith is what gives prayer its power.
(Footprints in the Snow: The Autobiography of a Chinese Buddhist Monk, p. 182)

Ch'an practitioners do not deny the existence of bodhisattvas. They believe strongly in bodhisattvas, Buddhas, and patriarchs, but they do not pray to them as people would pray to a deity or God. They recognize that patriarchs and bodhisattvas are beings at different levels of practice. They revere bodhisattvas and seek to emulate them, but they do not typically ask for their help. In a humble, sober manner, Ch'an followers practice on their own, or under the guidance of a master.
(Dharma drum: the life and heart of Ch'an practice, p. 281)
Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.



plwk
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Re: Practice and Faith

Postby plwk » Wed Mar 30, 2011 4:52 pm

Where are all of the iconoclastic zennies when you need em? :tongue:

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LastLegend
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Re: Practice and Faith

Postby LastLegend » Sun Apr 10, 2011 9:22 pm

NAMO AMITABHA
NAM MO A DI DA PHAT (VIETNAMESE)
NAMO AMITUOFO (CHINESE)

Bodhidharma [my translation]
―I come to the East to transmit this clear knowing mind without constructing any dharma―

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Quiet Heart
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Re: Practice and Faith

Postby Quiet Heart » Tue May 31, 2011 6:44 am

:shrug:
I read through the comments on this topic...and all I can say is at the present I will just have to respectfully agree to disagree.
I'm not being rude, it's just that personally, when I start reading such things as "Prayers to XXXXX for Good Forune" and "Homages to be Sung to XXXXXXXX for his/her Blessing" I can only absorb so much before my eyes begin to glase over.
On the other hand, I have been criticised/scolded before from other "Zennies" for merely mentioning that long ago I read Taoist matierial and that I thought it's Philosophical basis was interesting to me.
(No,No....please don't hit me!)
Maybe it's like planting seeds in the spring, and waiting to see what does eventually sprouts from those seeds.
I've bben planting a lot of seeds in the last few years....so I'll just have to wait to see what sprouts I guess.
To be honest even 2 or 3 years ago I wouldn't have even read your opinions...much less bothered to respond to them.
Maybe It's just I'm getting older, and less arguementive now.
:smile:
Shame on you Shakyamuni for setting the precedent of leaving home.
Did you think it was not there--
in your wife's lovely face
in your baby's laughter?
Did you think you had to go elsewhere (simply) to find it?
from - Judyth Collin
The Layman's Lament
From What Book, 1998, p. 52
Edited by Gary Gach


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