The "luminous mind", "Tathagatagarbha" vs. "mind essence"

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The "luminous mind", "Tathagatagarbha" vs. "mind essence"

Postby starter » Sun Mar 06, 2011 7:24 pm

Hello Friends,

I've just read the following about "Tathagatagarbha":

"Both the Shurangama Sutra and the Lankavatara Sutra describe the tathagatagarbha ("arahant womb") as "by nature brightly shining and pure," and "originally pure," though "enveloped in the garments of the skandhas, dhatus and ayatanas and soiled with the dirt of attachment, hatred, delusion and false imagining." It is said to be "naturally pure," but it appears impure as it is stained by adventitious defilements. Thus the Lankavatara Sutra identifies the luminous mind of the Canon with the tathagatagarbha. (Some Gelug philosophers, in contrast to teachings in the Lankavatara Sutra, maintain that the "purity" of the tathagatagarbha is not because it is originally or fundamentally pure, but because mental flaws can be removed — that is, like anything else, they are not part of an individual's fundamental essence. These thinkers thus refuse to turn epistemological insight about emptiness and Buddha-nature into an essentialist metaphysics.)

The Shurangama Sutra and the Lankavatara Sutra also equate the tathagatagarbha (and alaya-vijnana) with nirvana, though this is concerned with the actual attainment of nirvana as opposed to nirvana as a timeless phenomenon." [?] -- Wikipedia

I also thought the "luminous all around" consciousness mentioned in MN 49 and DN 11 is the mind essence. However, after reading Ajahn Maha Boowa's description about the well cleansed mind (which is "luminous all around" with the subtle emptiness but not yet free from the delusion of the "knower") and the completely cleansed mind (the transcendent emptiness of the pure mind which has no radiance anymore and free from all delusion) in "The Path to Aranhantship" and "Mae Chee Kaew – Her Journey to Spiritual Awakening & Enlightenment" --http://www.forestdhammabooks.com/, I realized that the shining mind which has been believed to be "Tathagatagarbha" (as stated in the quote above) is not yet the pure mind. I'm very grateful to Ajahn Maha Boowa and Mae Chee Kaew for their great contribution.

I'm not familiar with Chan, but read a story which seem to also indicate that the radiant mind is not yet the mind essence:

《心灯录》卷上有一则公案:僧问曹山(本寂禅师)日:“朗月当头时如何?(即证悟到如月光明境界,还应怎样修行)”山曰“仍是阶下客(尚未究竟)”僧日:“请师接上阶(请师父指点迷津)”山曰:“月落时相见(不居圣境,指月双泯)”。湛愚老人若在当时,劈面与曹山一掌云:月落时作么相见?客曰:此时曹山便拂袖归室。曰:曹山拂袖归室,我便礼拜而退。此体中玄上要也。

The story is similar in essence to Mae Chee Kaew's practice from the radiant mind to the empty mind (as I understand), so I'm not going to translate it. If some Chinese friends know more about the radiant mind vs. the pure empty mind, I'd like to learn more.

Thought this is an important issue and would like to share/exchange info with the friends here. All the best,

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Last edited by starter on Sun Mar 06, 2011 9:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Is the "luminous allaround mind" really "Tathagatagarbha"?

Postby Jikan » Sun Mar 06, 2011 8:12 pm

I hope not to confuse matters by introducing yet another layer of discourse onto it here, but instead to suggest a distinction that may clarify things.

In the Srimaladevi Sutra, Tathagathagarbha is described simply as Dharmakaya in the context of confusion and error. So yes, the Tathagathagarbha is not "completely cleansed." If it was, it would no longer be Buddha-potential, but Buddhahood.
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