The Proper Meaning of Dedicating Merit
Re: The Proper Meaning of Dedicating Merit
how can one transfer merit...
the idea of transfering merit??
sounds like God's Grace to me...
don't we create our own karma and no one can change it or rid it but ourselves..
but this IS dedicating merit so there is no real transfer of anything except good will towards men and such..
sounds christmasy ...
the idea of transfering merit??
sounds like God's Grace to me...
don't we create our own karma and no one can change it or rid it but ourselves..
but this IS dedicating merit so there is no real transfer of anything except good will towards men and such..
sounds christmasy ...
Love Love Love
Re: The Proper Meaning of Dedicating Merit
I'm gonna agree with swampflower and maybe take it one step further and say that dedicating merit reminds us that the ultimate aim of our practice is not merely for us to "progress". But since we do "progress" through practice then the least we can do is make this progress a cause for ALL other sentient beings to progress.swampflower wrote:Dedication of merit may be a form of mind training.
The dedication emphasizes that we are not following the Path for our own sake. The motivation to collect merit is for the benefit of others. If we merely pile up merit without dedication we may just be accumulating a heap of stuff. This will defeat the purpose of cutting away clinging and demonstrates incorrect view.
So, for example, when the Buddha reached enlightenment under the bodhi tree his first reaction was: "Well that's it then, but there is no way the others will be able to realise this". But he did end up teaching, and lots of people have reached realisation. I believe that this is possibly the ultimate example of the dediction of merit gained through practice. Using the fruits of the merit he accumulated (Buddhahood) in order to benefit all sentient beings.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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Re: The Proper Meaning of Dedicating Merit
You don't create karma, but karma may create merit. You can't rid yourself of karma until you cease to act, but you can choose how to act.Rael wrote:how can one transfer merit...
the idea of transfering merit??
sounds like God's Grace to me...
don't we create our own karma and no one can change it or rid it but ourselves..
but this IS dedicating merit so there is no real transfer of anything except good will towards men and such..
sounds christmasy ...
Left
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Re: The Proper Meaning of Dedicating Merit
Yeshe wrote:You don't create karma (as an outcome), but karma may create merit. You can't rid yourself of karma until you cease to act, but you can choose how to act.Rael wrote:how can one transfer merit...
the idea of transfering merit??
sounds like God's Grace to me...
don't we create our own karma and no one can change it or rid it but ourselves..
but this IS dedicating merit so there is no real transfer of anything except good will towards men and such..
sounds christmasy ...
Left
Re: The Proper Meaning of Dedicating Merit
You can rid yourself of the fruition of "old" karma and of the accumulation of "new" karma. This actually is the goal of practice initially and once achieved practice becomes "supramundane" practice. "supramundane" practice still creates merit ... but no karma.Yeshe wrote:You don't create karma, but karma may create merit. You can't rid yourself of karma until you cease to act, but you can choose how to act.
kind regards
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Re: The Proper Meaning of Dedicating Merit
I agree with this mostly. Supramundance practice is still an action and therefore karma.TMingyur wrote:You can rid yourself of the fruition of "old" karma and of the accumulation of "new" karma. This actually is the goal of practice initially and once achieved practice becomes "supramundane" practice. "supramundane" practice still creates merit ... but no karma.Yeshe wrote:You don't create karma, but karma may create merit. You can't rid yourself of karma until you cease to act, but you can choose how to act.
kind regards
We humans are incredibly fortunate, as you write, in being able to recognise such a goal.
Left
Re: The Proper Meaning of Dedicating Merit
This is just the appearance caused by the "speaking about" but actually in supramundane practice action has ceased.Yeshe wrote:Supramundance practice is still an action and therefore karma.
Kind regards
Edit:
This is my conclusion based on the Diamond sutra and the teachings that differentiate between supramundane paramitas and mundane paramitas.
Re: The Proper Meaning of Dedicating Merit
Dedication of merit is the intention of giving the good results coming from a good act one has done. Transference of merit occurs if others learn about one's good deeds and rejoice over it.
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?
2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.
3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.
4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.
1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?
2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.
3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.
4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.
1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
Re: The Proper Meaning of Dedicating Merit
Astus wrote:Transference of merit occurs if others learn about one's good deeds and rejoice over it.
Kind regards
Re: The Proper Meaning of Dedicating Merit
I still think you can't transfer merit...or actually dedicate it....
it's all just a method to produce Bodhicitta in one's mind stream.....
if a transfer money to me Ma via her bank account....she gets to actually use that money...
you can't give merit....
thats the the whole grace of god thing......
it's all just a method to produce Bodhicitta in one's mind stream.....
if a transfer money to me Ma via her bank account....she gets to actually use that money...
you can't give merit....
thats the the whole grace of god thing......
Love Love Love
Re: The Proper Meaning of Dedicating Merit
Rael,
Merit is not transferred as money. Karma (individual causality) cannot be given or taken. Merit transference means that if you give food to a homeless and you tell me about it and I feel good about such an act agreeing with it because of my mental attitude I experience similar causes as if I gave food myself. Same happens with wrong deeds, that's how "group karma" is possible.
Merit is not transferred as money. Karma (individual causality) cannot be given or taken. Merit transference means that if you give food to a homeless and you tell me about it and I feel good about such an act agreeing with it because of my mental attitude I experience similar causes as if I gave food myself. Same happens with wrong deeds, that's how "group karma" is possible.
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?
2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.
3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.
4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.
1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?
2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.
3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.
4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.
1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
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Re: The Proper Meaning of Dedicating Merit
Even Shakyamuni, fully awakened, as a Buddha, conducted action which had consequences - or we would not be discussing it. Are you saying Shakyamuni, a Buddha, did not act, or that he lacked attainment?TMingyur wrote:This is just the appearance caused by the "speaking about" but actually in supramundane practice action has ceased.Yeshe wrote:Supramundance practice is still an action and therefore karma.
Kind regards
Edit:
This is my conclusion based on the Diamond sutra and the teachings that differentiate between supramundane paramitas and mundane paramitas.
Left
Re: The Proper Meaning of Dedicating Merit
From our perspective He did act and had attained. And lucky we are that we are able to perceive it that way and rejoice in our perceiving it that way.Yeshe wrote:Even Shakyamuni, fully awakened, as a Buddha, conducted action which had consequences - or we would not be discussing it. Are you saying Shakyamuni, a Buddha, did not act, or that he lacked attainment?TMingyur wrote:This is just the appearance caused by the "speaking about" but actually in supramundane practice action has ceased.Yeshe wrote:Supramundance practice is still an action and therefore karma.
Kind regards
Edit:
This is my conclusion based on the Diamond sutra and the teachings that differentiate between supramundane paramitas and mundane paramitas.
Kind regards
Re: The Proper Meaning of Dedicating Merit
Yes, but apparently, as a Buddha, his actions were based on his omniscience and thus did not give rise to karma vipakka. After (Mahapari)Nibbana there is no return (according to the Theravadra). There is NOTHING left in the mind stream of a Buddha to give rise to rebirth. Remember that (according to dependent origination) overcoming ignorance is the key that opens the lock of the door which is the exit from samsara. Once omniscient, no ignorance. No ignorance, no birth. No birth, no becoming...Yeshe wrote:TMingyur wrote:Even Shakyamuni, fully awakened, as a Buddha, conducted action which had consequences - or we would not be discussing it. Are you saying Shakyamuni, a Buddha, did not act, or that he lacked attainment?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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Re: The Proper Meaning of Dedicating Merit
gregkavarnos wrote:Yes, but apparently, as a Buddha, his actions were based on his omniscience and thus did not give rise to karma vipakka. After (Mahapari)Nibbana there is no return (according to the Theravadra). There is NOTHING left in the mind stream of a Buddha to give rise to rebirth. Remember that (according to dependent origination) overcoming ignorance is the key that opens the lock of the door which is the exit from samsara. Once omniscient, no ignorance. No ignorance, no birth. No birth, no becoming...Yeshe wrote:TMingyur wrote:Even Shakyamuni, fully awakened, as a Buddha, conducted action which had consequences - or we would not be discussing it. Are you saying Shakyamuni, a Buddha, did not act, or that he lacked attainment?
Now (playing Devil's Advocate) how does that sit with a Buddha who, after enlightenment, was still subject to illness, ageing and death? Surely he was only free of samsara and free from karma and rebirth once his body had died?
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Re: The Proper Meaning of Dedicating Merit
Firstly: what do you mean by "free of karma"? (Apparently) his illness, ageing and death were the ripening of previous karma and not the consequence of his karma (actions) after his enlightenment. After his enlightenment his actions did not bear any effect on his mindstream that could then generate the causes and conditions for a subsequent rebirth.Yeshe wrote:Now (playing Devil's Advocate) how does that sit with a Buddha who, after enlightenment, was still subject to illness, ageing and death? Surely he was only free of samsara and free from karma and rebirth once his body had died?
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE
"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
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Re: The Proper Meaning of Dedicating Merit
I meant free from the consequences of karma as defined in your previous post.gregkavarnos wrote:Firstly: what do you mean by "free of karma"? (Apparently) his illness, ageing and death were the ripening of previous karma and not the consequence of his karma (actions) after his enlightenment. After his enlightenment his actions did not bear any effect on his mindstream that could then generate the causes and conditions for a subsequent rebirth.Yeshe wrote:Now (playing Devil's Advocate) how does that sit with a Buddha who, after enlightenment, was still subject to illness, ageing and death? Surely he was only free of samsara and free from karma and rebirth once his body had died?
But previous karma could surely not be involved in his deliberate choice to eat poisoned meat? And then become ill and die?
Maybe the karma ripened in creating the situation, but not in his decision how to act.
It's a unique situation in that we can ascribe all these qualities easily to the many Buddhas who are no longer in the human realm, but when it comes to Shakyamuni, did he enter Mahaparinirvana on his awakening or at his death?
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Re: The Proper Meaning of Dedicating Merit
What a marvelous topic
The question and some of the comments here have me running off to my library. Isn't it strange how we sometimes take portions of our practice for granted, or at least not think things through thoroughly? At least I am guilty of that sometimes. I have been taught how to dedicate the merit, I do it after every practice session, and I can give a quick, glib "answer" to what I am doing - until you scratch the surface.
The question and some of the comments here have me running off to my library. Isn't it strange how we sometimes take portions of our practice for granted, or at least not think things through thoroughly? At least I am guilty of that sometimes. I have been taught how to dedicate the merit, I do it after every practice session, and I can give a quick, glib "answer" to what I am doing - until you scratch the surface.
Dualism is the real root of our suffering and all of our conflicts.
Namkhai Norbu
Namkhai Norbu
Re: The Proper Meaning of Dedicating Merit
Whats this after his enlightenment thing???gregkavarnos wrote:Firstly: what do you mean by "free of karma"? (Apparently) his illness, ageing and death were the ripening of previous karma and not the consequence of his karma (actions) after his enlightenment. After his enlightenment his actions did not bear any effect on his mindstream that could then generate the causes and conditions for a subsequent rebirth.Yeshe wrote:Now (playing Devil's Advocate) how does that sit with a Buddha who, after enlightenment, was still subject to illness, ageing and death? Surely he was only free of samsara and free from karma and rebirth once his body had died?
when did he attain enlightenment?
Did he not attain this in the infinite past...??
Was not his whole life a three act play so to speak???
In the lotus sutra, i know of no other sutra to refer to ,and again "honestly" i think the lotus sutra is BOGUS..Says he in fact attain Buddhahood a long time ago....
the whole take the universe put it into a sack and with each step as you walk east take one particle out stop and place it on the ground....however long it takes to empty the sac one particle at a time multiply that by an infinite amount of Kalpas( a kalpa being the lenght of time it takes for a nymph to render a huge stone into dust by coming down with a silken scarf and rubbing it across the huge stone once a hundred years....how long it takes to wear it all down is the measurement of one kalpa ) an infite amount of kalpas is still not long enough.....the sutra goes on forever with multiplications to the power 2 or 4 and then you start all over multiplying that by infinities to get when He first attained Buddhaood.....
And it seems The Tulku I learn under said Buddha did not first attain enlightenment under the Bodhi....He said His life was an act so to speak ...Hiswhole life was a teaching....
Soooooo....then the whole poison mushroom to kill Him thing..not unlike Nargajuna who needed someone to kill him...
they don't die they have to be Killed it seems.....
questions questions....i ain't letting it go....ROFL!!!!!
i need these answered clearly.....thats why i is here....
Love Love Love
Re: The Proper Meaning of Dedicating Merit
so it really is just a method to induce bodhicitta in those that really don't get it....or have bodhicitta come naturally due to their level of evolution....Astus wrote:Rael,
Merit is not transferred as money. Karma (individual causality) cannot be given or taken. Merit transference means that if you give food to a homeless and you tell me about it and I feel good about such an act agreeing with it because of my mental attitude I experience similar causes as if I gave food myself. Same happens with wrong deeds, that's how "group karma" is possible.
sort of like using mind action karma or right thought to build merit in one self....
baby steps in other words...well maybe not baby steps for it does produce positive action in the practitioner's mind stream...
Love Love Love