Knowledge and Awareness in Buddha

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Re: Knowledge and Awareness in Buddha

Postby CSEe » Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:34 am

[quote="Ngawang Drolma"] If we are all the same and equal there is nothing to be gained from others. You already have equal awareness and nobody else needs to share it; nor do you need to learn from others.............................

Dear Ngawang Drolma , what I meant was in search of Buddha we must regards all in same and equal . I am as small as virus , as large as the sun . I am not greater / lesser than other so anything / everyone can be my master and I could gain awareness from them .

Awareness in not knowledge .
Knowledge we can compared / tested / certified or even challenge in court of law . Awareness to me is measurement of our energy towards purity / emptiness , it can not be compared or tested but could be learned and shared .

For example :-
Let say all of us here in this website are going to a place call " Buddha hotel " . You might be driving there with your BMW , some of us might flying there , some walk and perhaps I crawl there .
Let say I am 1000 km away from Buddha Hotel and you are 10 km to reach there . If I could call you using my mobile phone and ask you about your journey / condition of road leading to there , ofcouse you could be able to give me lots of valuable information on the my journey since you already took .

So , if I regards other " same and equal" I will be more aware of their awareness and be able to learn , but If I regard myself greater then them I will always see myself as what I wish to see . If I regard them greter than me , I will also be me as I wish to be .

I hope you understand me .

Thks
Ee
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Re: Knowledge and Awareness in Buddha

Postby Adamantine » Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:35 am

rainbowtara wrote:
CSEe wrote:
Yeshe wrote:When people enter forum and create large numbers of posts which are either insulting to Buddhadharma ...............

Hi Yeshe ,
" Insult" to Buddhadharma ? I had a feeling perhaps one of the "problem" here is me . Is my writing insult to Buddhism or teaching ?
Or perhaps thousand of tradition associated with Buddha ?

If I always think they are right , what tI learn is right , I will never know Buddha I will always be myself - the wonderer .
There was a monk said to me " Ee , you like a cup already full of water can not be fill any more " and I said to him "Sir thanks for your views but in search of Buddha is not filling on other cup but filling our own "
He said " go away"

Too many people here comparing knowledge with each other , spending too much time in gaining knowledge but in search of Buddha I believe we have to gain awareness not just knowledge .
For example :-
2300 years ago Asoka changed from in war to in peace . There must be some great awareness that capable to " push" him to higher awareness that makes him changed so drasticly . If he could share his knowledge / his emotion / his compassion / his desire / his determination that moved him , I could learn alot and perhaps move my own awareness .
Do you think Asoka changed becouse he read buddha texts ? I Believe not , is perhaps he accept " same and equal" , feel pain same and equal with the victim , feel sorrow same and equal with them , seeing thier love one as him .
Thks Ee


CSEe

Stop posting the same thing over and over. If you continue to do this further action may be taken

For your information people who use this website quite possibly read posts in every forum. By your continuing to post more or less the same thing over and over again it could be viewed and is already viewed by some as trolling.

So once again, please stop posting the same thing over and over and over.

Regards,
rt


According to Wikipedia's definition:
In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.


I'd say troll is a fitting label at this point, especially concerning the bolded part of the definition . . .
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
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Re: Knowledge and Awareness in Buddha

Postby CSEe » Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:00 am

[quote="rainbowtara"]
CSEe ,OK enough is enough. ................................


Dear rainbowtara , am I going to be ban again?
I was banned from many buddhism website perhaps this will be my last Buddhism website for me to share views / learn . I am tired /exhausted . Infact I learned alot here and I hope I could stay .

If many people think of me like you , please "vote" if majority want me to leave , I will leave .

Please try to understand me with " Buddha spirit " .

Thks
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Re: Knowledge and Awareness in Buddha

Postby CSEe » Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:04 am

[quote="Adamantine"]

Sir , sorry but many people here seems need to explain the same thing over and over again.....so how ?

Why always is my problem ?

Thks
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Re: Knowledge and Awareness in Buddha

Postby CSEe » Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:10 am

Dear all , to avoid being banned again and to cause further mis-understanding / anger towards me , I will not answer any question / accusation against me for time being .

I will leave this site for time being to calm the situation .
Thks
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Re: Knowledge and Awareness in Buddha

Postby purple rose » Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:19 am

CSEe wrote:Dear rainbowtara , am I going to be ban again?
I was banned from many buddhism website perhaps this will be my last Buddhism website for me to share views / learn . I am tired /exhausted . Infact I learned alot here and I hope I could stay .

If many people think of me like you , please "vote" if majority want me to leave , I will leave .

Please try to understand me with " Buddha spirit " .

Thks
Ee


CSEe

Whether further action is taken is entirely dependent on what you do. If you continue to demonstrate troll like behaviour as defined in a post above, the management of this site will take action for the benefit of other members who abide by the rules.

I wish you to read the Terms of Service, which are the rules for this site (they are not texts or scriptures). viewtopic.php?f=9&t=20 In particular please pay very close attention to #2 where it says:
This includes the badmouthing of other Buddhist discussion forums, trolling and proselytizing.

Everyone who signs up to become a member of this site agrees to abide by the Terms of Service.

Currently your behavior here is one of disruption which is against the Terms of Service. Once again this is a website for those who either are already practitioners of Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhism or who are interested in Mahayana and Vajrayana Buddhism.

Regards,
rt
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Re: Knowledge and Awareness in Buddha

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:45 am

rainbowtara wrote:CSEe

Stop posting the same thing over and over. If you continue to do this further action may be taken

For your information people who use this website quite possibly read posts in every forum. By your continuing to post more or less the same thing over and over again it could be viewed and is already viewed by some as trolling.

So once again, please stop posting the same thing over and over and over.

Regards,
rt


In regards to Rainbow Tara's post, this is an Administrator's note. This thread, and the posters in question are on very thin ice.

I recommend an immediate change in the manner of posting. No further repetition of adharma, proselytizing, trolling or ignoring other posters will be tolerated.

Best,
Laura
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Re: Knowledge and Awareness in Buddha

Postby ground » Mon Feb 21, 2011 5:58 am

I cannot recall that I have come across such "accomplished" trolling ever. Really ... there are slight shifts in his responses as to the degree of potential provocation (of course there always has to be a counterpart for it to work), also slight shifts as to his language skills in diverse postings ...

Kind regards
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Re: Knowledge and Awareness in Buddha

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:05 am

TMingyur wrote:I cannot recall that I have come across such "accomplished" trolling ever. Really ... there are slight shifts in his responses as to the degree of potential provocation (of course there always has to be a counterpart for it to work), also slight shifts as to his language skills in diverse postings ...

Kind regards


Yes it is skilled TMingyur. I would recommend New Age forums for discussion of energies and achieving enlightenment without Buddhism, the Buddha, or the dharma. There are many of said forums and perhaps they would be more suited to the posters' likings. This is a forum for the discussion of Mahayana and Vajrayana. And we have Terms of Service here.

For those who might call my intentions into question or my vows (as has been mentioned with others in these threads), bodhisattva vows are on the forefront of my mind as I kindly redirect the trollers to better forums. Perhaps better understandings would come out of it. The repetition here is not working despite the kind members' best efforts.

This is my last warning.

Best,
Laura
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Re: Knowledge and Awareness in Buddha

Postby Hanzze » Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:06 am

Marmalade wrote:
Hanzze wrote:Dear friends, angry, relaxed, in the mood of a task or seeing something right or wrong...

Marmalade made a real good pool

Practicing, awareness and metta


Yes, Hanzze, I'm searching.

And I say what I mean. Tonight, in a revealing interchange, I came into something of a conflict with a moderator on DhammaWheel, on a rather explosive issue, here:

http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=7380

I suppose I can ask penetrating questions.

But I am not sure at all that I agree with what you, or that other "fish", "CSEe" are saying, to be honest.

So I feel somewhat uncomfortable with what appears to be your praise of me.

Dear Marmalade,

it has nothing to do with Buddha Dharma, so you should not measure Dharma on general behavior. Sadly the Buddha Dharma is fast growing into somethings that people make there own. It is not different to other religions, the biggest problem is the grasping after something to define one self. As soon as you step a little outside of the usual behavior, many feel that they need to defend something.
As complicated Buddha Dharma might seems, as peaceful is it when you get into it. You should not agree with some strangers like CSEe or the Monkey, it is much better to listen to the people here in the forum because they are mostly well trained in knowledge and have wonderful access to the teachings of the Buddha Dharma. The more open your mind is, the more you will see that this kind of awareness is not easy to share.
Especial on a forum it is very difficult to communicate. If you like to find out something inside you need to keep calm and patient. It is somehow, like you enter a county as a foreigner. Even you know and understand much more, let me say for example you are a doctor, you will need to behavior like a simple worker for a long time, till you are accepted and the fear is gone.
If we like to learn from others, we need to listen. Only with patient and respecting the opinion from others it is able to learn and while you walk in this way also others learn.
It is an illusion to find any place or any community which is acting in a perfect way. More over, to understand his own desire, his own problem, his fear, his aversion, there would be nothing more contra productive than to dwell in a nice environment. As soon as you find your self in a nice environment, you can be sure, that it is not real. There are others behind, which are cleaning - in fact acting not very wholesome. Staying in a perfect environment means to tolerate misdeed for his own sake. It might give one a nice illusion, but actually it will not bring you any merits at all.

Be patient, modest and try to stay submissive, that is something that many (in the western world) had never learned but actually leads you direct to the ancient path. Only in that way you are able to receive.
It is a step by step journey and it is better to make them slow. No need to hurry, no need to struggle and no need to feel disappointed. Buddha Dharma is all about inside your self.
Just that! :-)
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Re: Knowledge and Awareness in Buddha

Postby Hanzze » Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:13 am

Ngawang Drolma wrote:
TMingyur wrote:I cannot recall that I have come across such "accomplished" trolling ever. Really ... there are slight shifts in his responses as to the degree of potential provocation (of course there always has to be a counterpart for it to work), also slight shifts as to his language skills in diverse postings ...

Kind regards


Yes it is skilled TMingyur. I would recommend New Age forums for discussion of energies and achieving enlightenment without Buddhism, the Buddha, or the dharma. There are many of said forums and perhaps they would be more suited to the posters' likings. This is a forum for the discussion of Mahayana and Vajrayana. And we have Terms of Service here.

For those who might call my intentions into question or my vows (as has been mentioned with others in these threads), bodhisattva vows are on the forefront of my mind as I kindly redirect the trollers to better forums. Perhaps better understandings would come out of it. The repetition here is not working despite the kind members' best efforts.

This is my last warning.

Best,
Laura


Is that the right view?
When you like to kick somebody out, that do it. It is up to you. But it is twice unwholesome to try to turn Dharma into a weapon or the reason why you do something. Just do it, but dont kill in the name of...! No need to search for a Sutra that would take away your own responsibility, you will not find it.
What about patient? What about making a step back? What about, not responding when it is to heavy to take?
Just that! :-)
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Re: Knowledge and Awareness in Buddha

Postby purple rose » Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:19 am

Hanzze wrote:Is that the right view?
When you like to kick somebody out, that do it. It is up to you. But it is twice unwholesome to try to turn Dharma into a weapon or the reason why you do something. Just do it, but dont kill in the name of...! No need to search for a Sutra that would take away your own responsibility, you will not find it.
What about patient? What about making a step back? What about, not responding when it is to heavy to take?


Hanzze

Trolling is not acceptable behavior at this site, please read the Terms of Service which everyone here agreed to abide by when registering.

Regards,
rt
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Re: Knowledge and Awareness in Buddha

Postby ground » Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:21 am

Ngawang Drolma wrote:For those who might call my intentions into question or my vows (as has been mentioned with others in these threads), bodhisattva vows are on the forefront of my mind as I kindly redirect the trollers to better forums.


To call that into question would be very biased and could as well be an instance of trolling too. I do not think that compassion necessarily has to take into account the volitional formations of some troller only. At the end strict blockage of the actions their volitions are directed to may prevent them to further accumulate masses of karma that is counter their own good.

To be honest my patience could not compete with yours.

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Re: Knowledge and Awareness in Buddha

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:31 am

TMingyur wrote:
Ngawang Drolma wrote:For those who might call my intentions into question or my vows (as has been mentioned with others in these threads), bodhisattva vows are on the forefront of my mind as I kindly redirect the trollers to better forums.


To call that into question would be very biased and could as well be an instance of trolling too. I do not think that compassion necessarily has to take into account the volitional formations of some troller only. At the end strict blockage of the actions their volitions are directed to may prevent them to further accumulate masses of karma that is counter their own good.

To be honest my patience could not compete with yours.

Kind regards


What an amazingly kind post. Thank you TMingryur :namaste:
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Re: Knowledge and Awareness in Buddha

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:36 am

Hanzze wrote:
Is that the right view?
When you like to kick somebody out, that do it. It is up to you. But it is twice unwholesome to try to turn Dharma into a weapon or the reason why you do something. Just do it, but dont kill in the name of...! No need to search for a Sutra that would take away your own responsibility, you will not find it.
What about patient? What about making a step back? What about, not responding when it is to heavy to take?


I have no intention of debating you.

Best,
Laura
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Re: Knowledge and Awareness in Buddha

Postby Hanzze » Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:43 am

The Discriminating Mind

Right understanding ultimately means non-discrimination-seeing all people as the same, neither good nor bad, neither clever nor foolish; not thinking that honey is sweet and good and some other food is bitter. Although you may eat several kinds of food, when you absorb and excrete them, they all become the same. Is it one or many? Is a glass big? In relation to a little cup, yes; when placed next to a pitcher, no.

Our desire and ignorance, our discrimination color everything in this way. This is the world we create. Again, a pitcher is neither heavy nor light; we just feel that it is one way or the other. In the Zen koan of the flag in the wind, two persons are watching a flag: one says it is the wind that moves, the other says it is the flag. They can argue forever, take sticks and fight it out, all to no avail, for it is the mind that moves.

There are always differences. Get to know those differences, yet learn to see the sameness too. In our group people come from different backgrounds, different cultures. Yet without thinking, 'This one's Thai, that one's Lao, he's Cambodian, he's a Westerner," we should have mutual understanding and respect for the ways of others. Learn to see the
underlying sameness of all things, how they are all truly equal, truly empty. Then you can know how to deal with the apparent differences wisely. But do not get attached even to this sameness.

Why is sugar sweet and water tasteless? It is just their nature. So too with thinking and stillness, pain and pleasure-it is wrong understanding to want thinking to cease. Sometimes there is thought, sometimes stillness. We must see that both are by nature impermanent, unsatisfactory, not a cause for lasting happiness. But if we continue to worry and think further, '1 am suffering, I want to stop thinking," this wrong understanding only complicates things.

At times, we may feel that thinking is suffering, like a thief robbing us of the present. What can we do to stop it? In the day, it is light; at night, it is dark. Is this itself suffering? Only if we compare the way things are now with other situations we have known and wish it were otherwise. Ultimately things are just as they are-only our comparisons cause us to suffer.

You see this mind at work-do you consider it to be you or yours? "I don't know if it's me or mine," you answer, "but it's certainly out of control." It is just like a monkey jumping about senselessly. It goes upstairs, gets bored, runs back downstairs, gets tired of that, goes to a movie, gets bored again, has good food or poor food, gets bored with that too. Its behavior is driven not by dispassion but by different forms of aversion and fear.

You have to learn control. Stop caring for the monkey-care for the truth of life instead. See the real nature of the mind: impermanent, unsatisfactory, empty. Learn to be its master; chain it down if you must. Do not just follow it, let it wear itself out and die. Then you have a dead monkey. Let the dead monkey rot away, and you have monkey's bones.

Still enlightenment does not mean to become dead like a Buddha statue. One who is enlightened thinks also but knows the process as impermanent, unsatisfactory, and empty of self. We who practice must see these things clearly. We need to investigate suffering and stop its causes. If we do not see it, wisdom can never arise. There should be no guesswork, we must see things exactly as they are-feelings are just feelings, thoughts are just thoughts. This is the way to end all our problems.

We can see the mind as a lotus. Some lotuses are still stuck in the mud, some have climbed above the mud but are still underwater, some have reached the surface, while others are open in the sun, stain-free. Which lotus do you choose to be? If you find yourself below the surface:, watch out for the bites of fishes and turtles.
A still forest pool

sorry for using strange resources, but maybe you find something equal what your own teacher said.
Just that! :-)
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Re: Knowledge and Awareness in Buddha

Postby alasdairyee » Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:10 am

Yeshe wrote:
alasdairyee wrote:I would say do it skillfully.

I am doing my part to save all sentient beings by preventing CSEe and Hanzee from slandering the Dharma and creating negative causes and conditions for themselves which they do quite a good job of.


I understand your kind intentions here.
However, maybe this can be a reminder for everyone to take note of what they say and if they're unsure of what they speak off, they should say that those are their own views humbly and do not say that that is what buddha said. I see some effort in some members doing that. Some have made some valuable posts in this forum, IMHO it would be best that you do not mention names.

I do not doubt the intentions of the 2 members which you have mentioned. This thread started, seeking views of others could very well be prove.

Compassion is to be tempered with wisdom.


I agree. However things need to be done skillfully. I would say do what you think buddha would do. We won't have buddha shutting us up, insulting us and using harsh words on us if he knows that by doing so, we will only walk away and shun his teachings. Only by teaching by example would we be so respectful to such a wise and compassionate teacher. Moreover, that wouldn't be the Mr Siddharta I know of.

Compassion is first priority. (IMO)

I would very much like to see trolls in the forum being lured to the buddhist teachings by our compassion, patiences and virtue. That would be an awesome sight indeed.

Namo Amituofo!



You have obviously not read the thread. They have zero interest in Buddhism and reject Buddhahdarma. However, please felel free to show us all by your own example, rather than preaching at people, which of itself is pretty arrogant. I will post as I see fit, and know my own motivation, asy you may also do.

You may also wish to check up on Compassion and the forms it may take.

When you join a forum it is clear what the ToS are - if you feel there have been breaches, report the posts.


Namo Amituofo!

Fine, if there are breaches, report the posts, ban them (immediately), that i shan't comment, you may ban whoever that has violated the ToS. This is logical.
But my comments is targeted at the harsh speech was used. If you think that harsh speech is okay in any situation, " your comments are deluded, get over yourself", moreover you being the moderator of this forum, then I think I'm in the wrong forum.
(I would sure like to here our original teacher shakyamuni say that :rolling: )
If you've checked, some members did contribute valuable posts. In this case I'm gonna mention names, take for example Hanzze, check out his posts, if you still think he's trolling then I rest my case.

And as long as I've been in Dharma Wheel, I've never lost my temper and patience and use harsh speech(At least not showing that in the forum, since I can always edit what I feel and think). I've always tried to share what I know with others. Is that example enough?

The 4th precept.
"4) To undertake the training to refrain from false speech. As well as avoiding lying and deceiving, this precept covers slander as well as speech which is not beneficial to the welfare of others."


If I have seemed somewhat arrogant, then I'm sorry, I have no intentions to appear so. My point is that harsh speech in that situation was not necessary, but he had more arguments why it was necessary so I had to further comment on those. Those were my own thoughts and I have no intention of imposing them on anyone, if they wish to follow then follow it, if they wish to think I'm just some stupid guy on the forum then ignore it, I'm not saying that everyone must follow what I say.

What I've said is not directed to anyone, I simply quote, thats all. I do not dare question anyone's vows or precepts or practice here, I just merely listed it out. If you think you're in accord with it, then think that I'm uttering rubbish and ignore me.

Namo Amituofo, I'm sorry if I have caused any anger, unhappiness or hatred to any of you. That is not my intention here. Please do not allow me, this unworthy being be a cause of your suffering.

Namo Amituofo, I'm sorry for questioning your practice earlier, that is truly my fault indeed.

Whatever it is, I shall take a break from this forum. I shan't comment further. Thank you for all of your time. :thanks:

Namo Amituofo!
May you all acheive enlightenment swiftly! :namaste:
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Re: Knowledge and Awareness in Buddha

Postby Sherab Dorje » Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:19 am

64-65
Even if for a lifetime
the fool stays with the wise,
he knows nothing of the Dhamma —
as the ladle,
the taste of the soup.

Even if for a moment,
the perceptive person stays with the wise,
he immediately knows the Dhamma —
as the tongue,
the taste of the soup.

Straight from the Buddhas mouth! See here http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Knowledge and Awareness in Buddha

Postby Sherab Dorje » Mon Feb 21, 2011 8:24 am

And just in case people believe the Buddha was some whimpering new-age idiot here is how he dealt with Sangha members that spouted a-Dharmic nonsense:
It is not fit, foolish man, it is not becoming, it is not proper, it is unworthy of a recluse, it is not lawful, it ought not to be done. How could you, foolish man, having gone forth under this Dhamma and Discipline which are well-taught, [commit such and such offense]?... It is not, foolish man, for the benefit of un-believers, nor for the increase in the number of believers, but, foolish man, it is to the detriment of both unbelievers and believers, and it causes wavering in some.
The Book of the Discipline, Part I, by I.B. Horner (London: Pali Text Society, 1982), pp. 36-37.
From here http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/vin/
There are many other examples, you can look them up for yourselves and (please) deal with the disrupters as is fit.
:namaste:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Knowledge and Awareness in Buddha

Postby Blue Garuda » Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:55 am

alasdairyee wrote:
Namo Amituofo!

Fine, if there are breaches, report the posts, ban them (immediately), that i shan't comment, you may ban whoever that has violated the ToS. This is logical.
But my comments is targeted at the harsh speech was used. If you think that harsh speech is okay in any situation, " your comments are deluded, get over yourself", moreover you being the moderator of this forum, then I think I'm in the wrong forum.
(I would sure like to here our original teacher shakyamuni say that :rolling: )
If you've checked, some members did contribute valuable posts. In this case I'm gonna mention names, take for example Hanzze, check out his posts, if you still think he's trolling then I rest my case.

And as long as I've been in Dharma Wheel, I've never lost my temper and patience and use harsh speech(At least not showing that in the forum, since I can always edit what I feel and think). I've always tried to share what I know with others. Is that example enough?

The 4th precept.
"4) To undertake the training to refrain from false speech. As well as avoiding lying and deceiving, this precept covers slander as well as speech which is not beneficial to the welfare of others."


If I have seemed somewhat arrogant, then I'm sorry, I have no intentions to appear so. My point is that harsh speech in that situation was not necessary, but he had more arguments why it was necessary so I had to further comment on those. Those were my own thoughts and I have no intention of imposing them on anyone, if they wish to follow then follow it, if they wish to think I'm just some stupid guy on the forum then ignore it, I'm not saying that everyone must follow what I say.

What I've said is not directed to anyone, I simply quote, thats all. I do not dare question anyone's vows or precepts or practice here, I just merely listed it out. If you think you're in accord with it, then think that I'm uttering rubbish and ignore me.

Namo Amituofo, I'm sorry if I have caused any anger, unhappiness or hatred to any of you. That is not my intention here. Please do not allow me, this unworthy being be a cause of your suffering.

Namo Amituofo, I'm sorry for questioning your practice earlier, that is truly my fault indeed.

Whatever it is, I shall take a break from this forum. I shan't comment further. Thank you for all of your time. :thanks:

Namo Amituofo!
May you all acheive enlightenment swiftly! :namaste:


I hope you decide to stay. Perhaps if taking a break, you could read around the forum more and become acclimatised to the nature of dialogue on Buddhist forums - it's not all 'harsh' I assure you, I've even seen some others here quote from scriptures, but neither is it required that members call a shovel full of manure a blissful flower.

Firstly, you have attributed posts incorrectly and mixed up my words with those of mr. gordo. No matter. Oh, Mods are subject to exaclty the same ToS as members, and are free to express wrath or have fun within those ToS. ;)

Secondly, twice in this post you assume a motivation of anger. 'Loss of temper', 'anger' 'hatred' - oh, please.....I'm really tempted to use the phrase I didn't use before and say 'get over yourself' . ;)

Third, you assume that our approach is not for the benefit of others, again failing to understand motivation or the nature of Compassion IMHO. Sorry, but again this post seems to be to be preaching down to people, most with several decades of practice under their belts and enough understanding of Dharma not to need telling off for what appears to you to be 'harsh'.

Fourthy you are rasing a 'straw man': 'If you think that harsh speech is okay in any situation,.....'.
Nobody wrote that they did, so why preach at them as if they had? You are deluding yourself that others need correction for a serious attitude problem, which you invented in order to issue a 'put down'.

As well as the above, you clearly mean to place yourself above others here:
'And as long as I've been in Dharma Wheel, I've never lost my temper and patience and use harsh speech..'
Hmmmm...anyone can have a perfect record of their driving skills, for example - stay at home and don't get into traffic.
In your reality, maybe others have seemed angry, in theirs they may not have. It's not for you to assume and lecture, but of course you are free to comment, and to receive responses on that commentary.

Ever seen Gelugpa monks debating, hurling words at each other, loudly gesticulating and looking keen to 'win' ? Of course, they are actually testing an argument and testing their own ability to convey it, and are not being 'harsh' or angry.

'Wrathful' gurus sometimes speak harshly, on occasion too. Sorry to burst the bubble. As I explained, I have a vow which instructs me to be wrathful (give the 'appearance' of anger', not be angry) when necessary.

Sometimes when a thread has descended into the realms of sheer daftness, such as (someone you regard not to be a troll) asking if killing is wrong or like 'banner' :shrug: , I think it's fine to have some fun or to tell someone they are trolling in plain words. Isn't that better than banning them, which may have far less benefit?

I agree fully with your premise, btw, but you are applying it here incorrectly and unfairly to a situation and to people who may wonder why you are showing such lack of 'awareness', to bring this meandering back to the topic. ;)

maitri

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