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Tensions within Modern Buddhism, Real or Illusory? - Page 3 - Dhamma Wheel

Tensions within Modern Buddhism, Real or Illusory?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
Element

Re: Tensions within Modern Buddhism, Real or Illusory?

Postby Element » Sun Jan 18, 2009 5:56 am


Element

Re: Tensions within Modern Buddhism, Real or Illusory?

Postby Element » Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:04 am


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Re: Tensions within Modern Buddhism, Real or Illusory?

Postby stuka » Sun Jan 18, 2009 6:20 am


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christopher:::
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Re: Tensions within Modern Buddhism, Real or Illusory?

Postby christopher::: » Sun Jan 18, 2009 7:26 am

"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009

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Re: Tensions within Modern Buddhism, Real or Illusory?

Postby Anders » Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:04 am


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Re: Tensions within Modern Buddhism, Real or Illusory?

Postby stuka » Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:14 am


Element

Re: Tensions within Modern Buddhism, Real or Illusory?

Postby Element » Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:27 am

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Re: Tensions within Modern Buddhism, Real or Illusory?

Postby Anders » Sun Jan 18, 2009 9:42 am


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Re: Tensions within Modern Buddhism, Real or Illusory?

Postby christopher::: » Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:01 am

"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009

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Re: Tensions within Modern Buddhism, Real or Illusory?

Postby Anders » Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:10 am


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Re: Tensions within Modern Buddhism, Real or Illusory?

Postby Anders » Sun Jan 18, 2009 11:27 am


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Re: Tensions within Modern Buddhism, Real or Illusory?

Postby christopher::: » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:05 pm

I think some of this is just choosing words carefully when we communicate. When gathered with sisters and brothers from different traditions we need to be very careful with words like "better" or "superior" because of the meaning they convey to others. Not in relation to being a drug addict vs. practicing clean living but definitely when discussing Mahayana beliefs with Theravadan Buddhists, when comparing Zen and Dzogchen, or Buddhas vs. Arhats.

If we make such statements among others they can offend. It's not only how we hold views in our mind, but also how we communicate them that matters, imo. This was a big problem i think over at another forum, sometimes. It's something to be mindful of i think, that's all.

I also like the view expressed by a number of Zen and Theravadan teachers, that we need to be very careful about any goals we hold for attaining something or becoming something in the distant future. Those ideas themselves can become a barrier to practice, if you hold a gaining concept too strongly. They tend to help solidify one's conceptions of a self, as a doer and becomer in this world. The Soto Zen teacher Shunryu Suzuki talked about this quite a bit.

Ajahn Chah expressed it this way:

"To explain it in a simple way, sometimes you will be an omniscient (sabbaññū) Buddha; sometimes you will be a Pacceka. It depends on conditions.

Talking about these kinds of beings is talking about the mind. It's not that one is born a Pacceka. This is what's called ''explanation by personification of states of mind'' (puggalādhitthāna). Being a Pacceka, one abides indifferently and doesn't teach. Not much benefit comes from that. But when someone is able to teach others, then they are manifesting as an omniscient Buddha.

These are only metaphors.

Don't be anything! Don't be anything at all! Being a Buddha is a burden. Being a Pacceka is a burden. Just don't desire to be. ''I am the monk Sumedho,'' ''I am the monk Ānando''... That way is suffering, believing that you really exist thus. ''Sumedho'' is merely a convention. Do you understand?

If you believe you really exist, that brings suffering. If there is Sumedho, then when someone criticizes you, Sumedho gets angry. Ānando gets angry. That's what happens if you hold these things as real. Ānando and Sumedho get involved and are ready to fight. If there is no Ānando or no Sumedho, then there's no one there - no one to answer the telephone. Ring ring - nobody picks it up. You don't become anything. No one is being anything, and there is no suffering.

If we believe ourselves to be something or someone, then every time the phone rings, we pick it up and get involved. How can we free ourselves of this? We have to look at it clearly and develop wisdom, so that there is no Ānando or no Sumedho to pick up the telephone. If you are Ānando or Sumedho and you answer the telephone, you will get yourself involved in suffering. So don't be Sumedho. Don't be Ānando. Just recognize that these names are on the level of convention.

If someone calls you good, don't be that. Don't think, ''I am good.'' If someone says you are bad, don't think, ''I'm bad.'' Don't try to be anything. Know what is taking place. But then don't attach to the knowledge either."


source:


:buddha1:
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009

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Anders
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Re: Tensions within Modern Buddhism, Real or Illusory?

Postby Anders » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:35 pm


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Re: Tensions within Modern Buddhism, Real or Illusory?

Postby christopher::: » Sun Jan 18, 2009 1:54 pm

"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009

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Re: Tensions within Modern Buddhism, Real or Illusory?

Postby kc2dpt » Sun Jan 18, 2009 5:24 pm

- Peter


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Re: Tensions within Modern Buddhism, Real or Illusory?

Postby bukowski » Sun Jan 18, 2009 7:08 pm

Hi Chris, all. :smile:

I don't feel tension in modern Buddhism. However, i often feel tension within people. I think we are talking about the problematic behaviour of people here, rather than issues between differing schools. I think it's easy to use a school, a faith, a belief, a colour, a race etc, to hide behind, but really we are all responsible for how we treat people, and how we respond to the treatment we receive from others.

All of us here know what we are really talking about, in my honest opinion. At one time few options were available for the practicing Buddhist who wished to share their experiences with, and learn from other practicng Buddhists online. Now we have many options, this lovely site included, moderated with compassion and equanimity, that we can visit and share with others.

Their will be times, even on this site when people will have the liberty of posting removed for whatever reason, and lines will be drawn and people will be upset. I know this from my own (limited) experience as a mod.

A compassionate community needs rules. How those rules are made, and how they are carried out is the mark of the compassion and wisdom of those who make and enforce them.

So again, it all comes back to people. Buddhism, like so many other things, makes a fine excuse for a lot of selfish action, but ultimately our intention is our own, and the karma it generates is ours to live through.

Maybe we can learn from some of this stuff and make this as suportive a community as i think it can be, judging by the high regard that i hold for those who started it, and moderate it. Perhaps we can own our words and deeds without using our faith and our beliefs to justify our actions and intentions.

Just some thoughts.

Metta, bukowski. :reading:

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Re: Tensions within Modern Buddhism, Real or Illusory?

Postby Individual » Sun Jan 18, 2009 7:14 pm

Rather than seeing a bunch of different sects, with different views, I think it is clearer to look at their foundation: the three unwholesome roots.

The three unwholesome roots are like a fungus which makes its way into almost every mind, every sect, while hiding itself with a thousand different masks and illusory differentiated appearances... But in each case, it can be traced back to the same unwholesome roots.

And in every case, in every mind, there is the luminous mind, everywhere there is Nibbana, which can sweep these unwholesome roots away.

So, I would say that, to the degree that the unwholesome roots take hold in Modern Buddhism, there will be tension. To the degree that they are capable of being swept away and do not reflect the luminous mind, the Buddha, the Dhamma, or the noble Arahants, they are illusory.

And so, there often appear to be doctrinal differences -- and sometimes, these doctrinal differences seem to be very real. But in many of these cases, it might just be something more complicated than "One side representing true dharma, the other side misrepresenting true dharma," but instead involves a complex array of different people, on both sides, some with high levels of realization with genuine disagreements, some with high levels of realization with superficial disagreement, and likewise for those with low levels of realization.
The best things in life aren't things.


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LisaMann
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Re: Tensions within Modern Buddhism, Real or Illusory?

Postby LisaMann » Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:23 am

Well, I am feeling some tension, although at it's core, it is illusory.

I just found out that I got banned from... that one place. No explanation, nothing. Ouch. :cry: IRL. It's like being kicked out of a family, grumpy uncles and all.

Element

Re: Tensions within Modern Buddhism, Real or Illusory?

Postby Element » Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:29 am

Chat site should be challenging. It is good to be more than a place for emotional catharsis. :coffee:

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LisaMann
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Re: Tensions within Modern Buddhism, Real or Illusory?

Postby LisaMann » Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:36 am



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