Pureland newbie!

Pureland newbie!

Postby gingercatni » Fri Feb 11, 2011 5:18 pm

Hello everyone,

This is my very first post. I've been a Buddhist for a little of a year and I have been practising the Theravada tradition. After this time I've quickly identified that I'm not moving along any particular path to enlightment and the self reliance in doing is very hard. I have been reading about Pureland and please do not get me wrong or thing of me as lazy, but I believe Amitabha can help me on this journey. However just as before, I'm alone in finding info on Pureland, is there any books that can help a newbie practice Pureland? I assume daily shrine activities are the same as Theravada? Any help would be very welcome!
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Re: Pureland newbie!

Postby plwk » Fri Feb 11, 2011 6:54 pm

:hi:

I recommend this: Buddhism of Wisdom and Faith

From the Chinese Mahayana Pure Land Tradition:
It's the 5 Sutras & 1 Sastra for Pure Landers: http://www.amtb-usa.org/eabs1-1.htm

A. The Threefold Pure Land Sutras:
The Buddha Speaks on Amitabha Sutra: http://cttbusa.org/amitabha/amitabha.htm

The Buddha Speaks on the Larger Amitayus Sutra:
Old Translation: http://web.mit.edu/~stclair/www/larger.html
Modern Translation: http://buddhistfaith.tripod.com/purelan ... s/id2.html

The Buddha Speaks on Visualization of Amitayus Sutra:
Old Translation: http://web.mit.edu/stclair/www/meditationsutra.html
Modern Translation: http://buddhistfaith.tripod.com/purelan ... s/id5.html

B. Pure Land Exhortation Sutras:
Pratyutpanna Samadhi Sutra: http://www.sutrasmantras.info/sutra22.html
Chapter 40 Avatamsaka Sutra: http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/samantabhadra.pdf
Shurangama Sutra: Mahastamaprapta's Insight: http://www.sutrasmantras.info/sutra08.html

C. Vasubandhu's Commentary:
http://www12.canvas.ne.jp/horai/jodoron.htm

Other Classical/Modern Commentarial/Story Links as below:
Pure Land Pure Mind
TAMING THE MONKEY MIND
Mind-Seal of the Buddhas
Pure Land Zen, Zen Pure Land
Pure Land of the Patriarchs
Pure Land Buddhism:Dialogues with Ancient Masters
Ten Doubts about the Pure Land
Introduction to the Pure Land 1
Introduction to the Pure Land 2
The Amitabha Sutra and the Pure Land School
Commentary on the Infinite Life Sutra
Sutra & Commentary on the Amitabha Sutra
Commentary on the Amitabha Sutra
Foundations of Ethics and Practice in Chinese Pure Land Buddhism
Pure Land Dharma Talks
Buddha Recitation Session Talks
Records of the Pure Land
Entering the Lotus Land at Ease
A Lotus Flower Blossoms Under Each Step
Amitabha Buddha Recitation

Liturgical aspirations to the Three Sages of Sukhavati: Amitabha Buddha, Avalokitesvara Bodhisattva and Mahastamaprapta Bodhisattva:
viewtopic.php?f=43&t=192
viewtopic.php?f=43&t=176
viewtopic.php?f=43&t=199
viewtopic.php?f=43&t=195
On the Japanese Mahayana Pure Land Tradition, I will leave it to my other learned brethren here to recommend you links :namaste:
If interested, you can post queries in the Tibetan Buddhist Forum on how Amitabha Buddha and the Pure Land is viewed and practiced according to their respective lineages, in the context of Vajrayana Buddhism. For example, I raised this: viewtopic.php?f=40&t=2991

:anjali:
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Re: Pureland newbie!

Postby gingercatni » Fri Feb 11, 2011 7:45 pm

Thankyou! I'll work my way through the links :woohoo:
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Re: Pureland newbie!

Postby Nosta » Fri Feb 11, 2011 10:36 pm

Whats the main difference between old and modern translations?
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Re: Pureland newbie!

Postby plwk » Sat Feb 12, 2011 4:05 am

Whats the main difference between old and modern translations?

What's the difference between 'Thou' and 'You'?
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Re: Pureland newbie!

Postby Nosta » Sat Feb 12, 2011 12:29 pm

That kind of difference...

Ok.

Since you posted both links for each book I was thinking if there was any big interpretation differences due to language, only that.
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Re: Pureland newbie!

Postby Mr. G » Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:14 pm

    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu
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Re: Pureland newbie!

Postby plwk » Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:19 pm

As always, thanks mr gordo :thumbsup:
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Re: Pureland newbie!

Postby gingercatni » Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:19 pm

Hi everyone

I'm still very lost on my path to pureland practice. Coming from a Theravada background, what I'm I to do for daily practice? I assume the opening of the shrine with flowers, candles and insense is the same? But is there anything formally I recite?
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Re: Pureland newbie!

Postby Mr. G » Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:59 pm

gingercatni wrote:Hi everyone

I'm still very lost on my path to pureland practice. Coming from a Theravada background, what I'm I to do for daily practice? I assume the opening of the shrine with flowers, candles and insense is the same? But is there anything formally I recite?


Here is a wonderful resource from Ven. Wuling (disciple of Ven. Chin Kung):

In One Lifetime

On page 44, there is description of a full meditation session.

Also her blog:

http://www.abuddhistperspective.org/

You can ask her questions and she's quite helpful in her replies.
    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu
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Re: Pureland newbie!

Postby plwk » Mon Feb 28, 2011 2:54 pm

:hi:

What do you think gingercatni?

I am going to play the devil's advocate here...with only your spiritual welfare in mind...

You have barely clocked in 'a little less than a year' with Theravada and now Pure Land is the latest interest?
The first posting was on Feb 12th and now its the Feb 28th, are all the links/resources given been read through thoroughly, well understood and comprehended to the point that you have no further questions and want to jump straight into practice?
If the answer was yes, then it would either really get me concerned or you are one of the rare gems in this present age who have the 'quickening' like Elder Sariputra who attained the first stage of Sainthood when he heard a short verse from the Elder Assaji or like the Sixth Patriarch Hui Neng who heard a stanza from the Diamond Cutter Sutra and gained immediate Enlightenment.

Have you even made an effort to google/find out through the local directory where's the next best/nearest location of a centre/temple that you can get in touch with people of like minded practice?

Speaking barely, a Pure Lander's formal practice is centred on mindfulness of the Buddha and may include seeking rebirth in their Pure Land and in a broader sense, there are other Pure Lands of Buddhas and Bodhisattvas mentioned in various texts of the Mahayana. Of these, Amitabha Buddha and His Sukhavati seems to be the most popularly known and practiced and other popular choices are like that of the Medicine Buddha and His Eastern Lapis Lazuli Pure Land and the Future Buddha, Maitreya Bodhisattva and His Inner Court of Tusita Heaven.

Self reliance is also a core concept which the Mahayana shares with its Theravada cousin, although the context of it must be properly understood to avoid oversimplification and confusion. The Buddhas, including Amitabha Buddha, can merely show the way, we on the other hand, have our part to fulfill, that is to walk and realize the Path. There is nothing about 'dumping' it all on the Conquerors while we get to do slack time in the Pure Land Path as some are inclined to think, as you have put it well yourself '...please do not get me wrong or thing of me as lazy'.

Having said all of above, and having said in my initial post, there are 3 streams of Pure Land formal practice and they are within the Chinese Mahayana Tradition (which the Korean and Vietnamese Buddhist Traditions are following), the Japanese Pure Land Tradition and the Tibetan Vajrayana Tradition. Each of these have their own layouts of how practicing that mindfulness of Amitabha Buddha and rebirth in His Sukhavati can be attained. One difference is that the East Asian model of Pure Land does not share the Vajrayana model of seeking for a lifelong teacher(s) although having one or more may be beneficial alongside learned Dharma companions.

I can only share from has been learned and practiced in my own Tradition, the Chinese Mahayana, that too, it has myriad methodologies and formats.

Generally speaking, it is not really so vastly different from the Theravada lay practice: morality, concentration and wisdom through study, practice and realization or coined in Pure Land as faith, vows and practice. The lay person would be expected to have taken at the very least the Refuge and 5 Precepts/Ten Good Deeds and later aspire to take on higher practices/disciplines like the Bodhisattva Vows/Precepts and so on. In Mahayana practice, the highest motivation is the Bodhi Mind, for all sentient beings, which includes oneself.

a. Daily Morning and Evening Practices
There are set liturgies (either using the common Chinese Mahayana liturgy or the specialised Pure Land liturgy) and in between those 2 formal periods, the rest of the day is spent in mindfulness of Amitabha Buddha practices.
Alternatively, one can choose a 'simpler method'.
For e.g one format is reciting 'The Amitabha Sutra' once, singing praises, reciting Pure Land verses of aspirations, doing bowing/prostrations, reciting the Refuge and ending with Transference of Merits in the morning and evening periods. Then, for the day long mindfulness practice, refer to the first link and other links given for details of how to's.
Another would be designating a formal Amitabha recitation using a set number of rosary/mala counts (108 times each) whilst either seated, standing, walking bowing, silent or verbal recitation in the morning and evening ending with Refuge and Transference of Merits chants.
Sample of how bowing, incense offering and other decorums are done in Chinese Mahayana in my Youtube page:
http://www.youtube.com/user/plwk#g/c/607CC4F300ED3538
A sample of Contemplation verse while bowing: (One can also replace 'Sakyamuni' with 'Amitabha' or whichever Buddha/Bodhisattva that one bows to)
The worshipped and worshipper are empty and still in nature,
The Response and the Way are intertwined inconceivably,
This Way Place of mine is like a wish fulfilling pearl,
Sakyamuni Buddha manifests in it,
I manifest before Sakyamuni Buddha,
Bowing down, I return my life in worship.

b. Monthly and Annual Practices
i. The Chinese Lunar Monthly Calendar Observances of Upavasatha (or Uposatha in Pali) where the New & Full Moon Days are observed (and also other days in between) or also known as the 'Ten Days of Observance' or 'Fasting Days' where the 8 Precepts, other contemplative/charitable practices and vegetarianism are observed: 1st, 8th, 14th, 15th, 18th, 23rd and last three days of the Chinese lunar month.
ii. Liturgical Annual Celebrations of Buddhas, Bodhisattvas and Dharma Protectors in Chinese Mahayana.
E.g The Solemnity of Amitabha Buddha Day is on the 17th Day of the 11th Lunar Month.

c. Practices at the Altar/Temple/Centre
Standard offerings of vegetarian food/beverages, flowers, incense, candles, Sutra text and even robes & requisites (if offered to a temple).
There are no hard and fast rules, one can choose any desired image(s) of the Buddha, of course if you can get an image of Amitabha Buddha, it would be great. Some who can afford more, would pair up Amitabha Buddha with Avalokitesvara & Mahastamaprapta Bodhisattvas where together they make up the 'Three Sages of the Western Pure Land'.
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Re: Pureland newbie!

Postby gingercatni » Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:26 pm

plwk wrote::hi:

What do you think gingercatni?

I am going to play the devil's advocate here...with only your spiritual welfare in mind...

You have barely clocked in 'a little less than a year' with Theravada and now Pure Land is the latest interest?
The first posting was on Feb 12th and now its the Feb 28th, are all the links/resources given been read through thoroughly, well understood and comprehended to the point that you have no further questions and want to jump straight into practice?
If the answer was yes, then it would either really get me concerned or you are one of the rare gems in this present age who have the 'quickening' like Elder Sariputra who attained the first stage of Sainthood when he heard a short verse from the Elder Assaji or like the Sixth Patriarch Hui Neng who heard a stanza from the Diamond Cutter Sutra and gained immediate Enlightenment.

Have you even made an effort to google/find out through the local directory where's the next best/nearest location of a centre/temple that you can get in touch with people of like minded practice?

Speaking barely, a Pure Lander's formal practice is centred on mindfulness of the Buddha and may include seeking rebirth in their Pure Land and in a broader sense, there are other Pure Lands of Buddhas and Bodhisattvas mentioned in various texts of the Mahayana. Of these, Amitabha Buddha and His Sukhavati seems to be the most popularly known and practiced and other popular choices are like that of the Medicine Buddha and His Eastern Lapis Lazuli Pure Land and the Future Buddha, Maitreya Bodhisattva and His Inner Court of Tusita Heaven.

Self reliance is also a core concept which the Mahayana shares with its Theravada cousin, although the context of it must be properly understood to avoid oversimplification and confusion. The Buddhas, including Amitabha Buddha, can merely show the way, we on the other hand, have our part to fulfill, that is to walk and realize the Path. There is nothing about 'dumping' it all on the Conquerors while we get to do slack time in the Pure Land Path as some are inclined to think, as you have put it well yourself '...please do not get me wrong or thing of me as lazy'.

Having said all of above, and having said in my initial post, there are 3 streams of Pure Land formal practice and they are within the Chinese Mahayana Tradition (which the Korean and Vietnamese Buddhist Traditions are following), the Japanese Pure Land Tradition and the Tibetan Vajrayana Tradition. Each of these have their own layouts of how practicing that mindfulness of Amitabha Buddha and rebirth in His Sukhavati can be attained. One difference is that the East Asian model of Pure Land does not share the Vajrayana model of seeking for a lifelong teacher(s) although having one or more may be beneficial alongside learned Dharma companions.

I can only share from has been learned and practiced in my own Tradition, the Chinese Mahayana, that too, it has myriad methodologies and formats.

Generally speaking, it is not really so vastly different from the Theravada lay practice: morality, concentration and wisdom through study, practice and realization or coined in Pure Land as faith, vows and practice. The lay person would be expected to have taken at the very least the Refuge and 5 Precepts/Ten Good Deeds and later aspire to take on higher practices/disciplines like the Bodhisattva Vows/Precepts and so on. In Mahayana practice, the highest motivation is the Bodhi Mind, for all sentient beings, which includes oneself.

a. Daily Morning and Evening Practices
There are set liturgies (either using the common Chinese Mahayana liturgy or the specialised Pure Land liturgy) and in between those 2 formal periods, the rest of the day is spent in mindfulness of Amitabha Buddha practices.
Alternatively, one can choose a 'simpler method'.
For e.g one format is reciting 'The Amitabha Sutra' once, singing praises, reciting Pure Land verses of aspirations, doing bowing/prostrations, reciting the Refuge and ending with Transference of Merits in the morning and evening periods. Then, for the day long mindfulness practice, refer to the first link and other links given for details of how to's.
Another would be designating a formal Amitabha recitation using a set number of rosary/mala counts (108 times each) whilst either seated, standing, walking bowing, silent or verbal recitation in the morning and evening ending with Refuge and Transference of Merits chants.
Sample of how bowing, incense offering and other decorums are done in Chinese Mahayana in my Youtube page:
http://www.youtube.com/user/plwk#g/c/607CC4F300ED3538
A sample of Contemplation verse while bowing: (One can also replace 'Sakyamuni' with 'Amitabha' or whichever Buddha/Bodhisattva that one bows to)
The worshipped and worshipper are empty and still in nature,
The Response and the Way are intertwined inconceivably,
This Way Place of mine is like a wish fulfilling pearl,
Sakyamuni Buddha manifests in it,
I manifest before Sakyamuni Buddha,
Bowing down, I return my life in worship.

b. Monthly and Annual Practices
i. The Chinese Lunar Monthly Calendar Observances of Upavasatha (or Uposatha in Pali) where the New & Full Moon Days are observed (and also other days in between) or also known as the 'Ten Days of Observance' or 'Fasting Days' where the 8 Precepts, other contemplative/charitable practices and vegetarianism are observed: 1st, 8th, 14th, 15th, 18th, 23rd and last three days of the Chinese lunar month.
ii. Liturgical Annual Celebrations of Buddhas, Bodhisattvas and Dharma Protectors in Chinese Mahayana.
E.g The Solemnity of Amitabha Buddha Day is on the 17th Day of the 11th Lunar Month.

c. Practices at the Altar/Temple/Centre
Standard offerings of vegetarian food/beverages, flowers, incense, candles, Sutra text and even robes & requisites (if offered to a temple).
There are no hard and fast rules, one can choose any desired image(s) of the Buddha, of course if you can get an image of Amitabha Buddha, it would be great. Some who can afford more, would pair up Amitabha Buddha with Avalokitesvara & Mahastamaprapta Bodhisattvas where together they make up the 'Three Sages of the Western Pure Land'.


Hi Thanks for the info :thanks:

i did read the links but as with all things connected to Buddhism I found them very speculative. Don't get me wrong I have enjoyed Theravada, but in they end I have to know where I'm going with it, with neither a Theravada centre or pureland centre I'm on my own. I doubt my ability to reach nirvana on my own, which is why pureland or shin-shu as it were appealed to me.

I'm very willing to make the effort as I've done so far but blindly practicing sometimes gets me down, as I'm always alone with no guidance or inspiration as to stop samsara.

I'll research more,

take care

Scott
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Re: Pureland newbie!

Postby Mr. G » Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:39 pm

ginger,

Are you more interested in Shin Shu info moreso than Chinese or Jodo Shu? :smile:
    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu
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Re: Pureland newbie!

Postby gingercatni » Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:56 pm

mr. gordo wrote:ginger,

Are you more interested in Shin Shu info moreso than Chinese or Jodo Shu? :smile:

:thinking: I'm not sure, I read Shin-shu is the easiest form of pureland and as i know nothing really to do with pureland etiquette I'm thinking shin-shu might be the path to follow. :?:
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Re: Pureland newbie!

Postby Jikan » Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:35 pm

Which is easier (or, rather, more appropriate) *for you* to work with, may well depend on where you are geographically and where you can find a teacher you can learn from, and a sangha you can practice with.

that's a general principle across Buddhist traditions.

To get to the broad question you posed earlier in the thread though on where you're going and how you might get there from here, it would help to have a look at some basic Mahayana materials (given that all Pure Land schools are first Mahayana schools). For a good place to start: check out _The Awakening of Faith_ and Santideva's Guide.

Namu Amidabu!
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Re: Pureland newbie!

Postby Mr. G » Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:42 pm

ginger,

You'll find good links here:

http://www.nembutsu.info/links.htm

Good articles: http://www.nembutsu.info/contents.htm

And if you have questions on how you should conduct a prayer session at home, you can contact the closest Buddhist Church of America by you, and they're very helpful:

http://www.bcahq.org/
    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu
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Re: Pureland newbie!

Postby Jikan » Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:18 pm

the BCA idea is a nice one, but guessing from the spelling, I would conjecture gingercatni is from the UK or the Commonwealth.
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Re: Pureland newbie!

Postby plwk » Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:51 am

i did read the links but as with all things connected to Buddhism I found them very speculative.
As I expected. Precisely what a forum like this is for, lay out the questions and get them probed and answered. I recall on what is now a defunct but a huge and major Buddhist Forum back then, there were some who came on its Pure Land Forum and with the help of a few Dharma users there, we helped these people understand the Pure Land Path with their months of tons of questions. It was a great way to test one's own practice and convictions. As you yourself have noted...
I'll research more,


I doubt my ability to reach nirvana on my own, which is why pureland or shin-shu as it were appealed to me.
Listen to yourself... I'm very willing to make the effort as I've done so far...The Buddha never second guessed Himself when still treading on the Path back then, why should we? :smile:

... but blindly practicing sometimes gets me down, as I'm always alone with no guidance or inspiration as to stop samsara.
Compared to the Buddha's time, won't you count yourself fortunate today, in an age where information and resources is at one's finger tips?
You have resources available, only that a live Community seems to be elusive...for now. Be patient and work on changing those causes and conditions. Even roses have thorns. I know the feeling of grasping at straws and didn't have it easy either but looking back into the past years, I am grateful for all who have helped me out in small/big ways and especially to those who used to put me down and off because they have increased my resolve tenfold in the Path. If you have read the Buddha's life, you think it was any better in the formation years? Take heart and be strong, you can only go one way: upwards.
Mr Gordo and Jikan have given sound advice too.
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Re: Pureland newbie!

Postby Shutoku » Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:53 am

Speaking from a purely Jodo Shinshu perspective here:

Here is a page with most of what I think you are looking for:

http://www.vbtemple.org/daily_tradition ... dition.htm
Namo Amida Butsu
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Re: Pureland newbie!

Postby LastLegend » Sat Apr 02, 2011 3:54 pm

gingercatni wrote:Hello everyone,

This is my very first post. I've been a Buddhist for a little of a year and I have been practising the Theravada tradition. After this time I've quickly identified that I'm not moving along any particular path to enlightment and the self reliance in doing is very hard. I have been reading about Pureland and please do not get me wrong or thing of me as lazy, but I believe Amitabha can help me on this journey. However just as before, I'm alone in finding info on Pureland, is there any books that can help a newbie practice Pureland? I assume daily shrine activities are the same as Theravada? Any help would be very welcome!


Ok there is no need for shrine or elaborate activities. All you need to do is say/repeat/chant/recite Namo Amitabha either out loud or in your head, make a vow to Amitabha to be reborn in Pure Land, with complete Faith of course. These 3 things are very important. You can increase your faith by listening to Dharma teachings that are related to Pure Land. So try to practice first, then post your experience here. I personally repeat NAM MO A DI DA PHAT (Vietnamese version of Namo Amitabha) in my head, almost every second, and if I forget I will come back to it immediately. After a couple months, you will notice some changes inside of you and eventually on your outer appearance also. During your practice, you will wrestle with intruding thoughts. So you should experiment to see which method can help you focus. I personally hear myself repeating NAM MO A DI DA PHAT in my head. This method works for me. Another method works for beginners is to repeat NAMO AMITABHA as fast as you can for 10 times one after another or consecutively. You can do that as many times per days as you can, and it works best when you do it out loud. Over time, you will become more focus. If intruding thoughts and emotions arise, do not pay attention to them if you do it slow and consecutively.

Here are good websites to explore
http://www.amtbweb.org/tenrecitationmethod.html
http://www.tinhthuquan.com/PhapAmEnglish/english.htm
http://www.quangduc.com/English/pureland/index.html

Please post your experience here. So we can help you.
NAMO AMITABHA
NAM MO A DI DA PHAT (VIETNAMESE)
NAMO AMITUOFO (CHINESE)
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