Are You Ready to Receive the Dharma? (The Law)

Discuss your personal experience with the Dharma here. How has it enriched your life? What challenges does it present?

Are You Ready to Receive the Dharma? (The Law)

Postby sraddha » Sun Jul 19, 2009 11:41 pm

Many people read the Nikayas or Mahayana Sutras and think that we have "Buddha natures", in fact, the Dharma seal (anityata, anatma, dukha, shunyata) is given to us by Buddha alone:


Then the Lord delivered a graduated discourse to Kutadanta, on generosity, on morality and on heaven, showing the danger, degradation and corruption of sense-desires, and the profit of renunciation. And when the Lord knew that Kutadanta's mind was ready, pliable, free from the hindrances, joyful and calm, then he preached a sermon on Dhamma in brief : on suffering, its origin, its cessation, and the path. And just as a clean cloth from which all stains have been removed receives the dye perfectly, so in the Brahmin Kutadanta, as he sat there, there arose the pure and spotless Dhamma-eye and he knew : "Whatever things have an origin must come to cessation."

Then Kutadanta, having seen, attained, experienced and penetrated the Dhamma, having passed beyond doubt, transcended uncertainty, having gained perfect confidence in the Teacher's doctrine without relying on others, from the Kutandanta Sutta


This is what every Buddhist strives to attain. Once you receive it, you are no longer a "lawless" one, you have the law!
:anjali:
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Re: Are You Ready to Receive the Dharma? (The Law)

Postby ChangYuan » Wed Jul 22, 2009 5:36 pm

So are you trying to say that we don't all have Buddha nature?
_/\_ Amituofo

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Re: Are You Ready to Receive the Dharma? (The Law)

Postby Prasadachitta » Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:47 pm

Here is my basic understanding.

There is Buddha Nature but nobody has it.
It is not a discernible quality but all qualities indicate it.
It is Dharma.
It is that which is indicated by conditionality and not self.

Just a thought

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Re: Are You Ready to Receive the Dharma? (The Law)

Postby genkaku » Thu Jul 23, 2009 1:26 am

A line I always liked: "Having some attainment is the jackal's yelp. Having no attainment is the lion's roar."
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Re: Are You Ready to Receive the Dharma? (The Law)

Postby sraddha » Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:20 pm

ChangYuan wrote:So are you trying to say that we don't all have Buddha nature?


Hi,

If someone instead of saying everyone had Buddha nature said, "each one of us has a billion dollars!" :woohoo:

Will you ask me the same question?

You will ask me, how would I get the billion dollars that I can't see, feel, taste?
Can I get a mortgage based on this? :smile:

Basically, the practical side is missing with "everyone has Buddha nature". Buddha or Buddha dhatu is obtainable by all, yet it requires certain prerequisites.
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Re: Are You Ready to Receive the Dharma? (The Law)

Postby sraddha » Thu Jul 23, 2009 10:23 pm

"Having some attainment is the jackal's yelp. Having no attainment is the lion's roar."


thus yelped the jackal... :D Buddha never puts down the spiritual attainments by any practitioner, the Dharma requires real practice and gives direct knowledge of advancement:

"Friends, the Tathagata -- the supreme man, the superlative man, attainer of the superlative attainment

Anuradha Sutta
To Anuradha
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Re: Are You Ready to Receive the Dharma? (The Law)

Postby ChangYuan » Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:24 am

sraddha wrote:
ChangYuan wrote:So are you trying to say that we don't all have Buddha nature?


Hi,

If someone instead of saying everyone had Buddha nature said, "each one of us has a billion dollars!" :woohoo:

Will you ask me the same question?

You will ask me, how would I get the billion dollars that I can't see, feel, taste?
Can I get a mortgage based on this? :smile:

Basically, the practical side is missing with "everyone has Buddha nature". Buddha or Buddha dhatu is obtainable by all, yet it requires certain prerequisites.


Sorry, but your analogy makes no sense. You are comparing a spiritual concept with a physical object. I just found it interesting that as a mod on a Mahayana forum, you were denying that all have Buddha-nature, which is most of what makes Mahayana and Theravada different. Ven. Master Sheng Yen had this to say on Buddha-nature:
Synonymous with the nature of emptiness, Tathagatagarbha , and True Suchness: the cornerstone of far Eastern Buddhism. Buddha-nature should be seen neither as a nihilistic emptiness or as an "object" to be experienced. To do so would limit it. Buddha-nature is the ultimate "unchangingness" of transience.Since the reality of all beings' existence is grounded in emptiness, it is possible to attain enlightenment(the realization of this truth) and attain Buddhahood. At the time of enlightenment, Buddha-nature is called bodhi. After Buddhahood it is referred to as nirvana.
_/\_ Amituofo

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Re: Are You Ready to Receive the Dharma? (The Law)

Postby genkaku » Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:12 pm

the Dharma requires real practice


I am glad if you think so and gladder still if you test what you think into action.
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Re: Are You Ready to Receive the Dharma? (The Law)

Postby sraddha » Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:45 am

ChangYuan wrote:
sraddha wrote:
ChangYuan wrote:So are you trying to say that we don't all have Buddha nature?


Hi,

If someone instead of saying everyone had Buddha nature said, "each one of us has a billion dollars!" :woohoo:

Will you ask me the same question?

You will ask me, how would I get the billion dollars that I can't see, feel, taste?
Can I get a mortgage based on this? :smile:

Basically, the practical side is missing with "everyone has Buddha nature". Buddha or Buddha dhatu is obtainable by all, yet it requires certain prerequisites.


Sorry, but your analogy makes no sense. You are comparing a spiritual concept with a physical object. I just found it interesting that as a mod on a Mahayana forum, you were denying that all have Buddha-nature, which is most of what makes Mahayana and Theravada different. Ven. Master Sheng Yen had this to say on Buddha-nature:
Synonymous with the nature of emptiness, Tathagatagarbha , and True Suchness: the cornerstone of far Eastern Buddhism. Buddha-nature should be seen neither as a nihilistic emptiness or as an "object" to be experienced. To do so would limit it. Buddha-nature is the ultimate "unchangingness" of transience.Since the reality of all beings' existence is grounded in emptiness, it is possible to attain enlightenment(the realization of this truth) and attain Buddhahood. At the time of enlightenment, Buddha-nature is called bodhi. After Buddhahood it is referred to as nirvana.


What makes the Mahayana the Mahayana is KNOWING BUDDHA NATURE - not saying everyone has "Buddha nature".

Classical Mahayana is the "advanced school" the assumption is that you have already mastered the Nikayas and have unshakeable faith in the Tathagatha an understand that when Mahayana sutras state that "all have Buddha nature" that you have already attained to "Anatma" -- which is what "All have Buddha nature means", that essentially all delusions have been pierced to discover Buddha Dhatu and that all beings impurities are anatma, not self. One must understand what "all beings" means.

PS, Buddha consistently uses material and wordly analogies to make worldly beings understand.

Buddha nature is a Buddha Ratana, -- a precious gem a very material analogy(thus Triratna), priceless, a wishfulfilling jewel, it's cannot be compared and beyond measure, infinite-- but let's make it into something we understand, say a billion -- a trillion dollars?

How many people would try to search for a trillion dollars in themselves if all were told we have hidden for us a trillion dollars, how many Buddhists settle thinking "we all have Buddha nature" and never practice?

What is the point of the hidden trillion dollars that you cannot find? What is the hidden treasure of Buddha nature worth, if you cannot find it?
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Re: Are You Ready to Receive the Dharma? (The Law)

Postby sraddha » Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:49 am

genkaku wrote:
the Dharma requires real practice


I am glad if you think so and gladder still if you test what you think into action.


You don't think the Dharma requires practice? I don't test what I think, I meditate and test the Dharma with faith in the Tathagatha established.
:smile:
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Re: Are You Ready to Receive the Dharma? (The Law)

Postby genkaku » Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:00 am

I don't test what I think


Oh my ....!
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Re: Are You Ready to Receive the Dharma? (The Law)

Postby sraddha » Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:01 pm

genkaku wrote:
I don't test what I think


Oh my ....!


Of course not. Those who actually meditate on Buddha enough :tongue: see that thoughts arise from nowhere in pariticular and go nowhere in particular except in circles, to hold on to any of them is the process of pratitya samutapada.

Those who test what they think, go around in circles... like this :rolleye: or like this :juggling: Like a ping pong ball hitting against the racket are thoughts, and just about as useful...:meditate:
:anjali:
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Re: Are You Ready to Receive the Dharma? (The Law)

Postby ChangYuan » Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:49 pm

sraddha wrote:What makes the Mahayana the Mahayana is KNOWING BUDDHA NATURE - not saying everyone has "Buddha nature".

Classical Mahayana is the "advanced school" the assumption is that you have already mastered the Nikayas and have unshakeable faith in the Tathagatha an understand that when Mahayana sutras state that "all have Buddha nature" that you have already attained to "Anatma" -- which is what "All have Buddha nature means", that essentially all delusions have been pierced to discover Buddha Dhatu and that all beings impurities are anatma, not self. One must understand what "all beings" means.

PS, Buddha consistently uses material and wordly analogies to make worldly beings understand.

Buddha nature is a Buddha Ratana, -- a precious gem a very material analogy(thus Triratna), priceless, a wishfulfilling jewel, it's cannot be compared and beyond measure, infinite-- but let's make it into something we understand, say a billion -- a trillion dollars?

How many people would try to search for a trillion dollars in themselves if all were told we have hidden for us a trillion dollars, how many Buddhists settle thinking "we all have Buddha nature" and never practice?

What is the point of the hidden trillion dollars that you cannot find? What is the hidden treasure of Buddha nature worth, if you cannot find it?


I have to ask where exactly you are gleaning this teaching from. All Mahayana texts I have ever seen refer to Buddh-nature as being something innate in all sentient beings.

The Mahaparinirvana Sutra, chapter 12:
Kasyapa said to the Buddha: "O World-honoured One! Is there any self in the twenty-five existences or not?" The Buddha said: "O good man! 'Self' means 'tathagatagarbha.' Every being has the Buddha Nature. This is self. Such a self is, since the very beginning, under cover of innumerable illusions. That is why man cannot see it. O good man! There is here a poor woman. She has in her house the true gold hidden. But none of the people of the house, big or small, know it. But there is a stranger, who, by expediency, speaks to the poor woman: 'I shall employ you. You now weed the land!' The woman answers: 'I cannot do it now. If you let my son see where the gold is hidden, I will soon work for you.' The man says, 'I know the way. I will show it to your son.' The woman says again: 'No people of my house, big or small, know. How can you?' The man says: 'I will now make it clear.' The woman says again: 'I desire to see. Pray let me.' The man digs out the gold that lay hidden. The woman sees it, is glad, and begins to respect the person. O good man! The same is the case with the Buddha Nature that man has. Nobody can see it. This is as in the case of the gold the poor woman possessed and yet could not see. O good man! I now let persons see the Buddha Nature that they possess, which is overspread by illusions. This is as in the case of the poor woman who cannot see the gold, even possessing it. The Tathagata now shows all beings the storehouse of enlightenment, which is the so-called Buddha Nature. If all beings see this, they are glad and will take refuge in the Tathagata. The good expediency is the Tathagata and the poor woman is all the innumerable beings, and the cask of true gold is the Buddha Nature.
_/\_ Amituofo

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Re: Are You Ready to Receive the Dharma? (The Law)

Postby sraddha » Sun Jul 26, 2009 10:51 pm

Hi,

you ask an excellent question.

So what does, "all beings have Buddha nature mean" in the Mahayana in context of correctly practicing anityata, anatmata, dukhata and shunyata?

In order to clarify the Mahayana view further on the Tathagatha Garbha, here from the Vajracheddika:

The Buddha said to Subhuti, "This is how the bodhisattva mahasattvas rnaster their thinking. 'However many species of living beings there are--whether born from eggs, from the womb, from moisture, or spontaneously; whether they have form or do not have form; whether they have perceptions or do not have perceptions; or whether it cannot be said of them that they have perceptions or that they do not have perceptions, we must lead all these beings to the ultimate nirvana so that they can be liberated. And when this innumerable, immeasurable, infinite number of beings has become liberated, we do not, in truth, think that a single being has been liberated "Why is this so? If, Subhuti, a bodhisattva holds on to the idea that a self, a person, a living being, or a life span exists, that person is not an authentic bodhisattva."
,'


If someone holds a view that "I have Buddha nature" or "all beings have Buddha nature", they are wrong, why? How can beings be in possession of Buddha Dhatu, that is free from the idea of being, I, me or mine? As soon as someone makes up the idea, "let me save all beings" -- they don't understand.

A Bodhisatva, because having practiced correctly and understands correctly, doesn't think there is an "I" who actually saves or "other being" to be saved -- that is the person who knows Buddha Dhatu in truth. Only the one who knows Buddha Dhatu can reveal it.

The above Nikaya passage shows Buddha revealing the path to Buddha Dhatu -- essentially without Buddha, this Buddha nature cannot be attained to -- which is why Buddha is the Guide and gives the Marga -- the path to Buddha Nature which releases the moon from a cloud (reveals the Tathagatha Garbha)

How can anyone be said to be in possession of a hidden treasure that he can't find, understand or use in any way? Without this map or path given by Buddha, beings can dig all over the place for Buddha nature and never find it.
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Re: Are You Ready to Receive the Dharma? (The Law)

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Mon Jul 27, 2009 1:46 am

Hi sraddha, all,

I like to conceptualize it as "Buddha potential."

:namaste:
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Re: Are You Ready to Receive the Dharma? (The Law)

Postby Dazzle » Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:20 am

.

Hi sister Ngawang Drolma, sraddha and all,

"Buddha Nature" is a phrase which is used frequently in Tibetan Buddhism.

This is an excellent teaching about Buddha Nature by Khenpo Tsultrim Gyamptso Rinpoche called "The Heart of the Buddhist Path" http://www.kagyu.org/ktd/resources/articles/Densal/HeartOfBuddhistPath.pdf


Also, for consideration, some quotes from Ringu Tulku Rinpoche in "Path to Buddhahood".

" We can attain enlighenment because we already possess the nature of a buddha. All living beings have this buddha nature."

'In the Samadhiraja Sutra the Buddha says " The essence of buddhahood pervades all beings". Likewise the
Mahaparinirvana Sutra says, "All beings possess the nature of buddha, or tathagatagharbha " '



Dazzle :anjali:
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Re: Are You Ready to Receive the Dharma? (The Law)

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:13 pm

Dazzle wrote:.

Hi sister Ngawang Drolma, sraddha and all,

"Buddha Nature" is a phrase which is used frequently in Tibetan Buddhism.

This is an excellent teaching about Buddha Nature by Khenpo Tsultrim Gyamptso Rinpoche called "The Heart of the Buddhist Path" http://www.kagyu.org/ktd/resources/articles/Densal/HeartOfBuddhistPath.pdf


Also, for consideration, some quotes from Ringu Tulku Rinpoche in "Path to Buddhahood".

" We can attain enlighenment because we already possess the nature of a buddha. All living beings have this buddha nature."

'In the Samadhiraja Sutra the Buddha says " The essence of buddhahood pervades all beings". Likewise the
Mahaparinirvana Sutra says, "All beings possess the nature of buddha, or tathagatagharbha " '



Dazzle :anjali:


Lovely, thank you :namaste:
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Re: Are You Ready to Receive the Dharma? (The Law)

Postby sraddha » Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:25 am

Hi all,

Yes, :quoteunquote: we :quoteunquote: all have Buddha nature:

:woohoo: :cheers:

Now find it! :techproblem:

For most the journey ends right there!

The patriarch added, "Good friends, all of you should put into practice what is taught in this stanza, so that you can realise the essence of mind and attain buddhahood directly. The dharma waits for no one. Huineng, Platform Sutra
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Re: Are You Ready to Receive the Dharma? (The Law)

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Wed Aug 26, 2009 3:59 am

The dharma waits for no one. Huineng, Platform Sutra


:thumbsup: :namaste:
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Re: Are You Ready to Receive the Dharma? (The Law)

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:00 am

genkaku wrote:
I don't test what I think


Oh my ....!


:D
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