Martsang Kagyu and other smaller Kagyus alive?

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Martsang Kagyu and other smaller Kagyus alive?

Postby dzoki » Mon Dec 20, 2010 2:47 pm

Hy guys,

just came across this web page. Quite interesting. I wish Martsang and other minor kagyu lineages are still alive and well somewhere in Tibet.

http://www.buddhistmeditation.org.uk/

What do you think? Is this authentic?

I know Barom Kagyu was thought to be almost dead, yet it is thriving in Tibet itself and also started to found its centers in Malaysia and elswhere.

And here I found Tsalpa Kagyu web.

http://www.tsalpa.org/

Though it does not offer much info.

Any info on Yelpa/Yelpa, Yazang, Shugseb and Trophu Kagyus? (That is are they still active?)
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Re: Martsang Kagyu and other smaller Kagyus alive?

Postby kirtu » Mon Dec 27, 2010 12:19 pm

dzoki wrote:http://www.buddhistmeditation.org.uk/

What do you think? Is this authentic?

I know Barom Kagyu was thought to be almost dead, yet it is thriving in Tibet itself and also started to found its centers in Malaysia and elswhere.

And here I found Tsalpa Kagyu web.

http://www.tsalpa.org/

Though it does not offer much info.

Any info on Yelpa/Yelpa, Yazang, Shugseb and Trophu Kagyus? (That is are they still active?)


Gosh who knows? I read recently that Hugh Leslie Thompson had asked HE Kalu Rinpoche early on if the Shangpa Kagyu still existed and Kalu Rinpoche replied that they had died out!

There are little lineages around but so little is known about them outside the Tibetan/Himalayan world. It was stunning just about 10 years ago when the Jonang were confirmed to have survived as both an institutional and teaching lineage.

Maybe Jamgon Kongtrul has a survey of lineages as part of the Rinchen Terzod or other writings and maybe we could see what actually had survived up to the end of the 19th century and maybe take it from there.

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Re: Martsang Kagyu and other smaller Kagyus alive?

Postby ngodrup » Mon Dec 27, 2010 7:27 pm

Martsang was absorbed by the Palyul tradition of the Nyingma.
Tshalpa is now Gelug and administrated by Sera.

But several lineages such Barom, drikung, Drukpa, Taklung, and Shangpa are still alive.
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Re: Martsang Kagyu and other smaller Kagyus alive?

Postby peteralanroberts » Thu Jan 27, 2011 1:43 am

Gangri Karma RInpoche, the holder of the Martsang Kagyu is settign up Martsang Kagyu centers outside Tibet. The Yelpa, Yasang and Tropu Kagyu have some monasteries and important teachers in TIbet. Of the eight secondary lineages coming from Pamodrupa only the Shuksep appears to have ceased in that it became a Nyingma institution. There are numerous Barom Kagyu monasteries in Golog.
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Re: Martsang Kagyu and other smaller Kagyus alive?

Postby conebeckham » Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:56 am

Hey, Welcome to the list, Peter Allan Roberts. Good to have you here--I think we will benefit!
May any merit generated by on-line discussion
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Re: Martsang Kagyu and other smaller Kagyus alive?

Postby narraboth » Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:51 pm

specially, gangri karma rinpoche this life is thought to be under Sayka system.
I met him many times in taiwan, now he lives in the UK. I met him in London Chinatown when HH Sakya Trichin visited London.

peteralanroberts wrote:Gangri Karma RInpoche, the holder of the Martsang Kagyu is settign up Martsang Kagyu centers outside Tibet. The Yelpa, Yasang and Tropu Kagyu have some monasteries and important teachers in TIbet. Of the eight secondary lineages coming from Pamodrupa only the Shuksep appears to have ceased in that it became a Nyingma institution. There are numerous Barom Kagyu monasteries in Golog.
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Re: Martsang Kagyu and other smaller Kagyus alive?

Postby kunchok89 » Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:35 am

Dear All,

Martsang Kagyu is exactly still alive! The H.E. Gangri Karma Rinpoche is authorized in this lineage.

Some of people said that Martsang was absorbed by the Palyul tradition of the Nyingma. However, I have asked the Jhonkuo Rinpoche who is the highest leader of Palyul tradition of the Nyingma in Tibet, Rinpoche said that it is never to has the lineage of Martsang Kagyu in the Palyul tradition of the Nyingma. The Jhonkuo Rinpoche is over 80 years old now.

The H.H. the Sakya Trizin is one of masters for H.E. Gangri Karma Rinpoche in this life, but Gangri Karma Rinpoche is not under Sakya system! we can easy to find out the authentication from literature review of tradition Tibet Buddhism.
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Re: Martsang Kagyu and other smaller Kagyus alive?

Postby kirtu » Sun Mar 06, 2011 6:14 pm

peteralanroberts wrote:Of the eight secondary lineages coming from Pamodrupa only the Shuksep appears to have ceased in that it became a Nyingma institution.


What is the history of the Shuksep lineage?

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Re: Martsang Kagyu and other smaller Kagyus alive?

Postby Jangchup Donden » Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:34 am

dzoki wrote:I know Barom Kagyu was thought to be almost dead, yet it is thriving in Tibet itself and also started to found its centers in Malaysia and elswhere.


The first Barway Dorje revived the Barom Kagyu lineages and Bardor Tulku Rinpoche (the 3rd Barway Dorje) is going to be starting to teach Barom Kagyu Mahamudra this month (March 19th and 20th) at Kunzang Palchen Ling; which I think is the first time he's given these teachings (at least publicly). They should be very special.

http://kunzang.org/

So if we're lucky, the Barom Kagyu lineage will begin to flourish here in the west as well.
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Re: Martsang Kagyu and other smaller Kagyus alive?

Postby narraboth » Tue Mar 08, 2011 1:45 pm

kunchok89 wrote:Dear All,

Martsang Kagyu is exactly still alive! The H.E. Gangri Karma Rinpoche is authorized in this lineage.

Some of people said that Martsang was absorbed by the Palyul tradition of the Nyingma. However, I have asked the Jhonkuo Rinpoche who is the highest leader of Palyul tradition of the Nyingma in Tibet, Rinpoche said that it is never to has the lineage of Martsang Kagyu in the Palyul tradition of the Nyingma. The Jhonkuo Rinpoche is over 80 years old now.

The H.H. the Sakya Trizin is one of masters for H.E. Gangri Karma Rinpoche in this life, but Gangri Karma Rinpoche is not under Sakya system! we can easy to find out the authentication from literature review of tradition Tibet Buddhism.


I don't think Rinpoche will agree that HH Sakya Trizin is just 'one of masters'. I remember he told us many times: HH Sakya Trizin is his root guru.
And if you check Rinpoche's Chinese brief biography, who are his other teachers? Khenchen Kungar Wangchuk, Luding Khen Rinpoche...
Rinpoche told us he has both Sakya and Martsan Kagyu lineage, but he mostly taught Sakya teaching in Taiwan. He also spent a lot of time doing Sakya lineage retreat etc.
It's good that the new centre in the UK mainly focus Martsan Kagyu lineage, I rejoice rinpoche's wish. However, indeed Rinpoche in this life was recognised by, taught by, and trained by Sakya system, we can't ignore that.
(But I am not very sure why HH Sakya Trizin would have involved in a Martsan Kagyu leader's recognition, must have a historical reason)

Jhonkuo Rinpoche? I think you mean Kyabje Jongkam Rinpoche tulku Tuksung (actually the same as Jamkang Rinpoche, as Rinpoche himself told me). A truly great master who was classmate of HH Penor Rinpoche. I have never heard about Martsan Kagyu lineage in Palyul lineage either.
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Re: Martsang Kagyu and other smaller Kagyus alive?

Postby Finest » Sun May 01, 2011 10:32 pm

སྨར་ཚང་བསྟན་པ་རྒྱས་པའི་སྨོན་ལམ།

བསྟན་པ་གངས་རིར་སྲི་ཞུའི་ཆུ་རྒྱུན་གྱིས། །ཚོགས་གཉིས་རྨད་ལྗོངས་ཡོན་ཏན་པདྨོ་ལས། །
འཕྲིནལས་འདས་རྒྱས་ལམ་ཟབ་འཛུམ་བཞདནས། །སྐལ་བཟང་བདེ་སྟོང་སྦྲང་རྪིར་རོལ་གྱུར་ཅིག །
གཟུང་འཛིན་རྦ་རློབས་བྱིང་རྒོད་འཕྱུར་བ་ཀུན། །གཡོ་མེད་སེམས་མཆོག་ཆུ་བོ་གཅིག་བསྒྲིལ་ཏེ། །
ཞི་ལྷག་རྒྱ་མཚོ་ངང་ཚུལ་བརྟེན་བྱས་ནས། །སྐུ་བཞི་བརྙེས་མཛད་སྨར་ཚང་རྒྱས་གྱུར་ཅིག །
མཁས་མང་རྒྱ་མཚོར་རྟོགས་ལྡན་ངང་པོའི་ཁྱུ། །སྒོམ་ལྔའི་སྒྲོ་རྒྱས་སྟོང་ཉིད་རླུང་ཤུགས་ཀྱིས། །
ཡེ་ཤེས་ལྔ་ཡི་མཁའ་ལ་ལྡིང་བྱེད་པའི། །སྨར་ཚང་བཤད་སྒྲུབ་འཛམ་གླིང་ཁྱབ་གྱུར་ཅིག །
ཤོ་ཙོམ་ཉི་ཟླ་མུན་སེལ་ཟུང་གཅིག་སྲོལ། །དུས་ཀྱི་དབང་གིས་ནུབ་དུ་གཤེགས་གྱུར་ཀྱང་། །
སླར་གསོ་འདུན་སྡེ་སྐྱ་རེངས་མྱུར་ཤར་ནས། །མཁས་གྲུབ་ཉིན་བྱེད་རིང་ལུགས་གསལ་གྱུར་ཅིག །
ཡེ་ཤེས་སྤྱན་ལྡན་སྨར་ཚང་ཆོས་སྲུང་ཀུན། །གཡེང་དུས་ལས་བཞེངས་བསྟན་དགྲ་ཚར་ཆོད་ནས། །
བསྟན་འཛིན་སྦྱིན་བདག་མངའ་ཐང་མྱུར་རྒྱས་ཏེ། །བཀྲ་ཤིས་སྙན་གྲགས་སྲིད་གསུམ་ཁྱབ་པར་མཛོད། །

ཅེས་སྨོན་ལམ་འདི་སྨར་ཚང་བཀའ་བརྒྱུད་ཀྱི་དྲ་རྒྱ་ཐོག་ནས་ཕབ་བཤུས་བྱས་པ་ཡིན་ལ་རྩོམ་འདི་བྲིས་མཁན་
གངས་རི་ཀརྨ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་མཆོག་ཡིན་པ་འདྲ་། ང་རང་བོད་ཡིག་ཡག་པོ་ཤེས་ཀྱི་མེད་པས་བྲིས་ནོར་འདུག་ན་བཟོད་པ་བཞེས་རོགས།
ཁོང་གིས་རྩོམ་འདི་ལ་ང་རང་དགའ་པོ་བྱུང་ཙམ་འདི་ལ་བྲིས་པ་ཡིན། Will[/size]
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Re: Martsang Kagyu and other smaller Kagyus alive?

Postby purple rose » Sun May 01, 2011 10:45 pm

Finest wrote:སྨར་ཚང་བསྟན་པ་རྒྱས་པའི་སྨོན་ལམ།

བསྟན་པ་གངས་རིར་སྲི་ཞུའི་ཆུ་རྒྱུན་གྱིས། །ཚོགས་གཉིས་རྨད་ལྗོངས་ཡོན་ཏན་པདྨོ་ལས། །
འཕྲིནལས་འདས་རྒྱས་ལམ་ཟབ་འཛུམ་བཞདནས། །སྐལ་བཟང་བདེ་སྟོང་སྦྲང་རྪིར་རོལ་གྱུར་ཅིག །
གཟུང་འཛིན་རྦ་རློབས་བྱིང་རྒོད་འཕྱུར་བ་ཀུན། །གཡོ་མེད་སེམས་མཆོག་ཆུ་བོ་གཅིག་བསྒྲིལ་ཏེ། །
ཞི་ལྷག་རྒྱ་མཚོ་ངང་ཚུལ་བརྟེན་བྱས་ནས། །སྐུ་བཞི་བརྙེས་མཛད་སྨར་ཚང་རྒྱས་གྱུར་ཅིག །
མཁས་མང་རྒྱ་མཚོར་རྟོགས་ལྡན་ངང་པོའི་ཁྱུ། །སྒོམ་ལྔའི་སྒྲོ་རྒྱས་སྟོང་ཉིད་རླུང་ཤུགས་ཀྱིས། །
ཡེ་ཤེས་ལྔ་ཡི་མཁའ་ལ་ལྡིང་བྱེད་པའི། །སྨར་ཚང་བཤད་སྒྲུབ་འཛམ་གླིང་ཁྱབ་གྱུར་ཅིག །
ཤོ་ཙོམ་ཉི་ཟླ་མུན་སེལ་ཟུང་གཅིག་སྲོལ། །དུས་ཀྱི་དབང་གིས་ནུབ་དུ་གཤེགས་གྱུར་ཀྱང་། །
སླར་གསོ་འདུན་སྡེ་སྐྱ་རེངས་མྱུར་ཤར་ནས། །མཁས་གྲུབ་ཉིན་བྱེད་རིང་ལུགས་གསལ་གྱུར་ཅིག །
ཡེ་ཤེས་སྤྱན་ལྡན་སྨར་ཚང་ཆོས་སྲུང་ཀུན། །གཡེང་དུས་ལས་བཞེངས་བསྟན་དགྲ་ཚར་ཆོད་ནས། །
བསྟན་འཛིན་སྦྱིན་བདག་མངའ་ཐང་མྱུར་རྒྱས་ཏེ། །བཀྲ་ཤིས་སྙན་གྲགས་སྲིད་གསུམ་ཁྱབ་པར་མཛོད། །

ཅེས་སྨོན་ལམ་འདི་སྨར་ཚང་བཀའ་བརྒྱུད་ཀྱི་དྲ་རྒྱ་ཐོག་ནས་ཕབ་བཤུས་བྱས་པ་ཡིན་ལ་རྩོམ་འདི་བྲིས་མཁན་
གངས་རི་ཀརྨ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་མཆོག་ཡིན་པ་འདྲ་། ང་རང་བོད་ཡིག་ཡག་པོ་ཤེས་ཀྱི་མེད་པས་བྲིས་ནོར་འདུག་ན་བཟོད་པ་བཞེས་རོགས།
ཁོང་གིས་རྩོམ་འདི་ལ་ང་རང་དགའ་པོ་བྱུང་ཙམ་འདི་ལ་བྲིས་པ་ཡིན། Will[/size]


Hi Finest, welcome to Dharma Wheel,

Please supply a translation for the above, for the benefit of the members of Dharma Wheel are not able to read Tibetan. The custom for this website is to write in English or supply an English translation when writing posts. Thank you for your co-operation.

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rt
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Re: Martsang Kagyu and other smaller Kagyus alive?

Postby mahabuddha » Tue May 24, 2011 3:36 am

Drikung Kagyu is alive and well. Our lineage is thriving and being re-established all over the world. http://www.drikung.org
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Re: Martsang Kagyu and other smaller Kagyus alive?

Postby MJH » Tue May 24, 2011 5:28 pm

mahabuddha wrote:Drikung Kagyu is alive and well.


Very true! In fact, we were blessed to have a group of monks from Tserkarmo Monastery visit us last year.



They were excellent representatives of Drikung Kagyu and I hope to see them again soon. :smile:
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