ghost of west in tibetan buddhism

[tempuserus]

i understand spirits life spend i believe some 52 days in death bardos. i know of the hungry ghost. my questions comes from the western concept of ghost of dead who have been dead for hundred years or so. science proves ghosts exist what we call fringe science meaning yes and no. i also have experiances of my dreams, i lucid dream, i have woken up and what i call being half sleep or inbetween sleep and awake state and seen ghost; both in dreams and partially awake i have ineteracted with them.

i just wanna know if they are delussions, i have checked online things they have told me that i never heard of and they exist any thoughts. i follow the gelug school.

[Dharmaswede]

There are two levels to your questions:

1. To establish whether your experiences are delusional or not you need to talk much more in depth about them with someone who really knows these things, such as a teacher. In my opinion, they are fully compatible with the world view of Tibetan buddhism and as such they are not delusional per se - which is not to say that they can't be. Sorry for the ambiguity!

2. There is not 100% consensus among practitioners and teachers of Tibetan buddhism in the West that ghosts are sentient beings that have a relative existence, like you and me. Some consider them to be figments, projections etc. of your own mind. I have a hard myself getting this perspective to fit into other fundamental teachings in Tibetan buddhism. But knowing that individuals of much, much greater learning and higher spiritual calibre than myself adhering to it I do of course respect it and understand that there are many valuable, and subtle insights in it as well.

If you are bothered by experiences, seriously consider seeking help by someone you trust and who understand these things.

Best Wishes,

Jens

[Blue Garuda]

The 'very subtle mind' of a being who dies enters the Bardo, for up to 49 days.

Some will be reborn as ghosts.

There are no ghosts in the Bardo, only in the ghost realm.

There are Gelugpa practices for the removal of ghosts.

In the meantime, if you can summon a strong feeling of compassion for these being, you will experience no fear.

[Dharmaswede]

Great clarifications Yeshe!

Best Regards,

Jens

[Blue Garuda]

Great clarifications Yeshe!

Best Regards,

Jens

Thanks.

I forgot something which may or may not be important.

The term 'spirits' is also used sometimes in translating the categories of illness in Tibtean medicine. I can't remember exaclty, but I think there are 18 different 'spirits' types which represent the type of illness and determine how they are treated.

Therefore we may be told that we have a 'cannibal spirit' in our body and all it means is that we have a specific type of illness.
It's there we touch on the borders of casting out a bad spirit and it is so easy to mix up a reference to a simple medical condition, and its treatment, with the exorcism of a ghost being.

In all circumstances, if we hold a mind of Compassion towards the beings involved, there is no room for fear.

If you wake up and think you see ghosts, try to feel compassion for their situation. Peaceful sleep should then be possible.

[Paul]

i understand spirits life spend i believe some 52 days in death bardos. i know of the hungry ghost. my questions comes from the western concept of ghost of dead who have been dead for hundred years or so. science proves ghosts exist what we call fringe science meaning yes and no. i also have experiances of my dreams, i lucid dream, i have woken up and what i call being half sleep or inbetween sleep and awake state and seen ghost; both in dreams and partially awake i have ineteracted with them.

i just wanna know if they are delussions, i have checked online things they have told me that i never heard of and they exist any thoughts. i follow the gelug school.

I take it you have looked at sleep paralysis and the "night hag" experiences? It's a surprisingly common sleep phenomena and is linked to lucid dreaming. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis

I remember once waking up and feeling like there was an invisible, naked woman sat on me and trying to strangle me. Thankfully I knew about sleep paralysis and was more intrigued than scared. When I woke up fully I realised that the sensation was caused by a combination of the dream state, a necklace that had tightened slightly around my neck and the elastic in my clothes.