Daily life practice?

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Astus
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Re: Daily life practice?

Post by Astus »

duckfiasco wrote:The difficult point I think is the ceaseless, instantaneous identification with what the mind does. I see dukka woven into the mind but think "well, what else is there other than this churning out of thoughts, feelings etc.?"

It feels like trying to watch the surface of a lake, and bugs keep skittering by.
Now, they're going to do that no matter what, but I seem to pay attention to every single one to the point of exhaustion, and I've lost sight of the water's calm surface. All I see is bugs making endless ripples.
As long as one thinks that bugs should not be there, that the surface must be calm and peaceful, there will be dissatisfaction. What is dissatisfaction? When things don't match our expectations. Now, is the source of the problem found in the things or in the expectations? Or, in Zen lingo, do you hit the cart or the horse?

If you believe that you are your mind, your consciousness, your attention or whatever else, then you want to freeze it in some state you consider acceptable. If you want control over what happens, that is assuming a self. But if you want to disassociate from everything going on, that is also assuming a self. What you might want to see is that even when you get lost in a stream of ideas, that is as insubstantial as everything else. Don't consider one type of experience good and another type bad. That's because this kind of like-dislike attitude is the very problem. If you focus on the bugs, then just focus on them, it is the same awareness as the awareness of the whole lake. In fact, both are just temporary experiences. The question is whether you want to stay somewhere, want to move somewhere, or not.
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
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Lindama
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Re: Daily life practice?

Post by Lindama »

old zen koan: abiding nowhere let the mind arise

when cooking rice, it is the next thing to do. when the zen mind is present, no need to add that me, myself and I is cooking rice, or that she wants it to be perfect. likewise, no need to add non-attachment or other ideas and distractions. when she sits in the zendo, there is no thought about burning the soup. If the soup burns, we have burnt soup. In the kitchen, she does not think of the zendo. she need not manuever anything... not a matter of trying to be non-attached, not zen mind.

it's simply daily life without devices
Not last night,
not this morning,
melon flowers bloomed.
~ Bassho
Simon E.
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Re: Daily life practice?

Post by Simon E. »

What, no saucepan ?
“You don’t know it. You just know about it. That is not the same thing.”

Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche to me.
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Lindama
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Re: Daily life practice?

Post by Lindama »

good one, Simon... ofc sauce pan ... no robot tho
Not last night,
not this morning,
melon flowers bloomed.
~ Bassho
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Alex123
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Re: Daily life practice?

Post by Alex123 »

Astus wrote:Abiding nowhere, or non-abiding, is the central teaching of prajnaparamita as well as zen. Understanding that already the mind is without any abode (fixed state) and phenomena are originally empty (without anything to hold on to), that is seeing nature (that change is universal) and not abiding anywhere.
I understand that I can't control mental states and that holding onto a certain state is futile. What often happens is that I can't seem to remember not to be abiding anywhere. This is a problem. I can't seem to always remember and do Hishiryo, etc. I wonder why.
Even the water melting from the snow-capped peaks can find its way to the ocean"
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Losal Samten
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Re: Daily life practice?

Post by Losal Samten »

Alex123 wrote:That often happens is that I can't seem to remember not to be abiding anywhere. This is a problem. I can't seem to always remember and do Hishiryo, etc. I wonder why.
Because you need to break karmic habituation. Set aside an hour and just remain present, always aware of what your mind is thinking and feeling. If you're thirsty know that you're thirsty and get yourself a drink, "I am standing up, I am walking to the kitchen, I am grabbing a cup". You'll be distracted no doubt but bring that presence back whenever it happens and in the future when you dedicate more time to this it'll be easier until it itself becomes a constant natural mode.
Lacking mindfulness, we commit every wrong. - Nyoshul Khen Rinpoche
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔
ཨོཾ་ཧ་ནུ་པྷ་ཤ་བྷ་ར་ཧེ་ཡེ་སྭཱ་ཧཱ།།
ཨཱོཾ་མ་ཏྲི་མུ་ཡེ་སལེ་འདུ།།
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Re: Daily life practice?

Post by catmoon »

I have this amazing ability.

In the twenty-foot walk from the computer to the kitchen, I can forget why I left the computer room, walk right through the kitchen into the next room, see there are no cigarettes on the table, go looking for a lighter, which takes me back through the kitchen where I will again forget what I was doing, get a glass of pepsi out of the fridge, wonder why there is an unopened box of mac and cheese sitting in there, return to the computer, see cigarettes on the desk, which reminds me I was going to have a smoke (or was I), go looking for a lighter, feel nature's call, take a leak, and return to the computer room and actually be surprised to see cigarettes on the desk.

I call this living in the moment. The cat just calls it plain old confusing.
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Astus
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Re: Daily life practice?

Post by Astus »

Alex123 wrote:I understand that I can't control mental states and that holding onto a certain state is futile. What often happens is that I can't seem to remember not to be abiding anywhere. This is a problem. I can't seem to always remember and do Hishiryo, etc. I wonder why.
You say that holding onto a certain state is futile, then you call it a problem that you can't always do hishiryo. Isn't there a contradiction?
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
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Dan74
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Re: Daily life practice?

Post by Dan74 »

My sense is that hishiryo is not something you do. It happens when there is no grasping. No grasping after any state even hishiryo, no grasping after any knowing, full openness, full intimacy with what is.
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Alex123
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Re: Daily life practice?

Post by Alex123 »

Dan74 wrote:My sense is that hishiryo is not something you do. It happens when there is no grasping. No grasping after any state even hishiryo, no grasping after any knowing, full openness, full intimacy with what is.
Right, and how does one reach state where grasping doesn't occur?
Even the water melting from the snow-capped peaks can find its way to the ocean"
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Astus
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Re: Daily life practice?

Post by Astus »

Alex123 wrote:Right, and how does one reach state where grasping doesn't occur?
Through realising that there is nothing to grasp.
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
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Alex123
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Re: Daily life practice?

Post by Alex123 »

Astus wrote:
Alex123 wrote:Right, and how does one reach state where grasping doesn't occur?
Through realising that there is nothing to grasp.
And how to realize that?

Thanks,

Alex
Even the water melting from the snow-capped peaks can find its way to the ocean"
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Re: Daily life practice?

Post by LastLegend »

Alex123 wrote:
Astus wrote:
Alex123 wrote:Right, and how does one reach state where grasping doesn't occur?
Through realising that there is nothing to grasp.
And how to realize that?

Thanks,

Alex
Let me take a crack.

When you listen, that's you listen. When you see, that's you see. When you feel, that's you feel. I am talking you not your thoughts. Your thoughts cannot listen, see, and feel. Ever washed dishes but thinking about something else, that washing dishes is you.

Ever sit and eat with a very ordinary mind no worries no fears?

When thoughts arise, often get caught up with it. When that happens, can always go back to the present awareness-the same awareness that we see, feel, and listen.

Bodhidharma:

Buddha is Sanskrit for what you call aware, miraculously aware. Responding, arching your brows blinking your eyes, moving your hands and feet, its all your miraculously aware nature. And this nature is the mind. And the mind is the Buddha. And the Buddha is the path. And the path is Zen. But the word Zen is one that remains a puzzle to both mortals and sages. Seeing your nature is Zen. Unless you see your nature, it’s not Zen.

Some dude here on the forum said something like, "rest in awareness or the primordial nature."


If everything else fails, chant or recite a Buddha or Bodhisattva. This is powerful and it works. :lol:
The fastest and quickest way to understanding/wisdom is to recall a Buddha or Bodhisattva sincerely with a wish to gain wisdom and be free from suffering. There, I told you my secret. :)
Last edited by LastLegend on Fri Jul 25, 2014 11:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Daily life practice?

Post by LastLegend »

Alex123 wrote:
Dan74 wrote:My sense is that hishiryo is not something you do. It happens when there is no grasping. No grasping after any state even hishiryo, no grasping after any knowing, full openness, full intimacy with what is.
Right, and how does one reach state where grasping doesn't occur?
How can we you reach you? You are as you are. Sit, walk, drive, wave, blink, see, move. The problem is we keep searching with thoughts for something something. Create something something with our thoughts.
It’s eye blinking.
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Astus
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Re: Daily life practice?

Post by Astus »

Alex123 wrote:And how to realize that?
The answer to that is the complete teaching of the Buddha. Within that vast amount of methods there are the Zen techniques. And among Zen techniques there is the option to directly look at your mind - your complete realm of experience - and see whether there is any concrete, stable thing you can identify and grasp or not. And once you let all experiences appear as they are, you can see for yourself that they are ungraspable. In fact, letting them appear and seeing their ungraspability are one and the same. Letting things be as they are is the same as not seeking anything to rely on.

It is when one cannot just, so to say, relax, let go and open up, that all the methods from sitting posture, phrase contemplation and all the other skilful means come into the picture. They give some reason to stop grasping at ideas and feelings, or rather they are substitutes to the normal objects of attachment, however, they are still attachments and delusions. But unlike ordinary delusions, they might help one get over all clinging and false concepts.
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
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Re: Daily life practice?

Post by Dan74 »

Astus wrote:
Alex123 wrote:And how to realize that?
The answer to that is the complete teaching of the Buddha. Within that vast amount of methods there are the Zen techniques. And among Zen techniques there is the option to directly look at your mind - your complete realm of experience - and see whether there is any concrete, stable thing you can identify and grasp or not. And once you let all experiences appear as they are, you can see for yourself that they are ungraspable. In fact, letting them appear and seeing their ungraspability are one and the same. Letting things be as they are is the same as not seeking anything to rely on.

It is when one cannot just, so to say, relax, let go and open up, that all the methods from sitting posture, phrase contemplation and all the other skilful means come into the picture. They give some reason to stop grasping at ideas and feelings, or rather they are substitutes to the normal objects of attachment, however, they are still attachments and delusions. But unlike ordinary delusions, they might help one get over all clinging and false concepts.
:good:

I'd add that going back to the basics, and cleaning up our lives with small steps, is always good practice. Do good when an opportunity arises. Avoid harmful actions, even smallish ones. Purify. This is a good basis. Then contemplations of the teachings, meditation, koan work, chanting, etc. And bringing formal practice into everyday life as much as possible, so that a dividing line blurs. Life-practice, practice-life.
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Re: Daily life practice?

Post by Alex123 »

:good:



Thank you all for your wonderful replies,
Even the water melting from the snow-capped peaks can find its way to the ocean"
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Re: Daily life practice?

Post by White Lotus »

my friend and teacher says: ''what you do inside the home will have a bearing on what you do outside the home.'' keeping a clean tidy flat is the ideal and disciplining oneself to do things in a pure way... even the smoking is done with mindfulness and gratitude. focusing on life is focusing on the way.

best wishes, Tom.
in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.
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Re: Daily life practice?

Post by LastLegend »

Astus wrote:
Alex123 wrote:And how to realize that?
The answer to that is the complete teaching of the Buddha. Within that vast amount of methods there are the Zen techniques. And among Zen techniques there is the option to directly look at your mind - your complete realm of experience - and see whether there is any concrete, stable thing you can identify and grasp or not. And once you let all experiences appear as they are, you can see for yourself that they are ungraspable. In fact, letting them appear and seeing their ungraspability are one and the same. Letting things be as they are is the same as not seeking anything to rely on.
Does this mean we use no effort or intention because things appear as the are? Flow like the Dao with no blockage? A medium that connects with everything else? :lol:
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Astus
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Re: Daily life practice?

Post by Astus »

LastLegend wrote:Does this mean we use no effort or intention because things appear as the are? Flow like the Dao with no blockage? A medium that connects with everything else? :lol:
It is effortless if one has the clear realisation that appearances are without anything to grasp.
1 Myriad dharmas are only mind.
Mind is unobtainable.
What is there to seek?

2 If the Buddha-Nature is seen,
there will be no seeing of a nature in any thing.

3 Neither cultivation nor seated meditation —
this is the pure Chan of Tathagata.

4 With sudden enlightenment to Tathagata Chan,
the six paramitas and myriad means
are complete within that essence.


1 Huangbo, T2012Ap381c1 2 Nirvana Sutra, T374p521b3; tr. Yamamoto 3 Mazu, X1321p3b23; tr. J. Jia 4 Yongjia, T2014p395c14; tr. from "The Sword of Wisdom"
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