Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Post by Malcolm »

Crazywisdom wrote:
No. They did not. They completely misunderstood the teachings. They might have seen bindus but they did not understand the part about not conceptualizing them and not concretizing or universalizing them.
Do you know them personally, or are you basing your opinion merely off of their books? Also, doesn't it strike you as a bit unkind to refer to Rachel Olds in such a condemning way? Speaking strictly for myself I would prefer to think that she will take a human birth again, in a Dharma family.
Natan
Posts: 3685
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 5:48 pm

Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Post by Natan »

Malcolm wrote:
Crazywisdom wrote:
No. They did not. They completely misunderstood the teachings. They might have seen bindus but they did not understand the part about not conceptualizing them and not concretizing or universalizing them.
Do you know them personally, or are you basing your opinion merely off of their books? Also, doesn't it strike you as a bit unkind to refer to Rachel Olds in such a condemning way? Speaking strictly for myself I would prefer to think that she will take a human birth again, in a Dharma family.
Their books reveal clearly they did not understand the teachings. They veered off from their guru. No guru would approve. I'm sure she will find the teachings again. The teachings have that power. Conceptualizing appearances stirs the karmic wind. Though even Yama's actions are compassionate. Such a detour would happen to a mind that misuses these dangerous teachings in such a blatant way. Why dangerous? This gets to the very core of our existence even our potential to generate forms in any realms. It gets to the most sensitive point of our programming. One wrong move and much has to be done to repair. Like ganapuja. All masters handle things with great care and still small errors can prevent rainbow body. But completely disregarding the guardians, and the gurus, I dont think there's a rosy picture to paint about that.
Vajra fangs deliver vajra venom to your Mara body.
Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Post by Malcolm »

Crazywisdom wrote: I'm sure she will find the teachings again.
Then why paint such a condemning picture?
Natan
Posts: 3685
Joined: Fri May 23, 2014 5:48 pm

Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Post by Natan »

Malcolm wrote:
Crazywisdom wrote: I'm sure she will find the teachings again.
Then why paint such a condemning picture?
Her students will not. She received Longchen Nyingthig. Her students received Earth Visions.
Vajra fangs deliver vajra venom to your Mara body.
Malcolm
Posts: 42974
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:19 am

Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Post by Malcolm »

Crazywisdom wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
Crazywisdom wrote: I'm sure she will find the teachings again.
Then why paint such a condemning picture?
Her students will not. She received Longchen Nyingthig. Her students received Earth Visions.
I really don't think they have many students.
User avatar
Karma Dorje
Posts: 1416
Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:35 pm

Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Post by Karma Dorje »

Crazywisdom wrote: Their books reveal clearly they did not understand the teachings. They veered off from their guru. No guru would approve. I'm sure she will find the teachings again. The teachings have that power. Conceptualizing appearances stirs the karmic wind. Though even Yama's actions are compassionate. Such a detour would happen to a mind that misuses these dangerous teachings in such a blatant way. Why dangerous? This gets to the very core of our existence even our potential to generate forms in any realms. It gets to the most sensitive point of our programming. One wrong move and much has to be done to repair. Like ganapuja. All masters handle things with great care and still small errors can prevent rainbow body. But completely disregarding the guardians, and the gurus, I dont think there's a rosy picture to paint about that.
Without the ability to see this directly, what possible good comes from speculation? If we believe in the teachings on bardo and the sensitivity of bardo beings, should we not be generating a mind of love, kindness and optimism for her rather than a mind of disputation and condemnation? The problems of breaking one's samaya with the root guru if she did so are for her to deal with, not for us to speculate on. For the next 49 days, let's take the teachings to heart and generate as much care and support as we can.
"Although my view is higher than the sky, My respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour."
-Padmasambhava
User avatar
Nemo
Posts: 1792
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:23 am
Location: Canada

Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Post by Nemo »

dzogchungpa wrote:I think we all know what to do:
Image
There is no reason whatsoever to make a publicly available book about these teaching. Except to make a quick buck. Hopefully this book will now be forgotten and we can go home. Also some of the Old's comments sound painfully uninformed even to me.
User avatar
dzogchungpa
Posts: 6333
Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 10:50 pm

Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Post by dzogchungpa »

Nemo wrote: There is no reason whatsoever to make a publicly available book about these teaching. Except to make a quick buck. Hopefully this book will now be forgotten and we can go home. Also some of the Old's comments sound painfully uninformed even to me.
You're right, I just like that image. :smile:
There is not only nothingness because there is always, and always can manifest. - Thinley Norbu Rinpoche
User avatar
Grigoris
Former staff member
Posts: 21938
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Post by Grigoris »

Thread locked for clean up.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
User avatar
Grigoris
Former staff member
Posts: 21938
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 pm
Location: Greece

Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Post by Grigoris »

Right, this thread was reported for a number of reasons. The problem is, that to show fairness in editing, I would have to delete half the thread. That means that I would have to delete some valid points too. I have decided to leave the thread as it stands, but to make a couple of points points clear:

Criticising somebody that is not present is normally considered bad form. Speaking ill of the recently dead is normally considered despicable.

When one takes into account that the criticism is coming from a practitioner of a vehicle that gives such importance to the bardo period, and the possibly disrupting effect of negative circumstances during that period (for the recently deceased), then that takes that despicability to a whole new level.

People should show some restraint in their criticisms, at this critical point in time, until at least the procedure of the bardo of death and rebirth has come to an end. AT LEAST.

I will reopen the thread, but if people show an incapacity to behave in a sensitive and compassionate manner, then I will lock it, issue formal warnings and even suspensions.

Thank you.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde
lama tsewang
Posts: 173
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:08 pm

Re: Complete Togal Instruction in Unrestricted New Book

Post by lama tsewang »

Hi can you Malcolm define then, having the experience of cho nyid neon sum .
Post Reply

Return to “Dzogchen”