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 Post subject: Get Your Money Back
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 3:29 am 
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The Late Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche
(February 28, 1939 – April 4, 1987)

My advice to you is not to undertake the spiritual path.
It is too difficult, too long, and is too demanding.
I suggest you ask for your money back, and go home.
This is not a picnic.
It is really going to ask everything of you.
So, it is best not to begin.
However, if you do begin, it is best to finish.

Link

Thoughts?

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 Post subject: Re: Get Your Money Back
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 6:36 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 16, 2010 12:58 pm
Posts: 1106
plwk wrote:
Thoughts?

As always, Rinpoche goes straight to the heart of the matter.

All the best,

Geoff


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 Post subject: Re: Get Your Money Back
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:29 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:23 am
Posts: 452
Location: Denver, CO
Yeshe D. wrote:
plwk wrote:
Thoughts?

As always, Rinpoche goes straight to the heart of the matter.


And never let it be said that the Vidyadhara was one to blow sunshine up someone's butt. He didn't want his students getting too comfortable and complacent. He didn't want them getting caught up in the spiritual materialism that was so rampant in the west back in those days. He wanted his students to be genuine and fearless practitioners and not some species of poseur.

I'm very fortunate to count some of his former students as friends. From what they say, from what I've read and what has been written about the man, I can only say that he must have been a truly amazing teacher.


Last edited by Chaz on Sat Jan 08, 2011 1:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Get Your Money Back
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:48 pm 
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Chaz wrote:
I'm very fortunate to count some of his former students as friends.

Yes, me too.

All the best,

Geoff


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 Post subject: Re: Get Your Money Back
PostPosted: Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:12 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:08 pm
Posts: 95
Nice quote, very true, but I seriously doubt that he ever refunded money to any of his students when asked.


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 Post subject: Re: Get Your Money Back
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 1:24 am 
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Posts: 452
Location: Denver, CO
Dharmakara wrote:
Nice quote, very true, but I seriously doubt that he ever refunded money to any of his students when asked.


Actually, I've seen people get the money back at Shambhala centers and got my own money back once. All I had to do was ask. I doubt it would have been any different in CTR's day.


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 Post subject: Re: Get Your Money Back
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 3:37 am 
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Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:08 pm
Posts: 95
Chaz, that's good to hear. Shambhala has come along way and dealt with the controversies quite well, but to be honest, having first encountered him when I was a teen in Wisconsin, I still have a gut reaction when ever his name comes up, something I still work hard at over-coming.

Metta.


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 Post subject: Re: Get Your Money Back
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 3:53 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 6:36 am
Posts: 4027
Location: Spaceship Earth
plwk wrote:
Image
The Late Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche
(February 28, 1939 – April 4, 1987)

My advice to you is not to undertake the spiritual path.
It is too difficult, too long, and is too demanding.
I suggest you ask for your money back, and go home.
This is not a picnic.
It is really going to ask everything of you.
So, it is best not to begin.
However, if you do begin, it is best to finish.

Link

Thoughts?


Hi plwk,

This is reminiscent of the book Living This Life Fully: Stories and Teachings of Munindra that I just finished reading. There is a conversation that Munindra is having with a young boy who wants to learn astral projection, and Munindra says:


Please, listen to me now, and I will save you many steps. Be an ordinary person: Get married, have children, cook breakfast. Be present in your life.


Though it may not seem related, I think Trungpa is clearly letting people know that if you want to get involved with Buddhism, study and practice with the attitude that your life is on the line...because it is. Fully immerse yourself in it and don't half-ass it. Munindra seems more like he's warning the young boy against getting involved with siddhis as that will just cause problems for him. However Munindra adds at the end "Be present in your life", which I think is also what Vajrayana practitioners attempt to do...to maintain pure vision 24/7. To be present, fully immersed as much as we can, and yet realizing how demanding it is.

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    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu


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 Post subject: Re: Get Your Money Back
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 1:10 pm 
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Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2009 3:19 am
Posts: 1030
Location: Southern Oregon
Chaz wrote:
Dharmakara wrote:
Nice quote, very true, but I seriously doubt that he ever refunded money to any of his students when asked.


Actually, I've seen people get the money back at Shambhala centers and got my own money back once. All I had to do was ask. I doubt it would have been any different in CTR's day.


You all asked for your money back? I can't imagine a situation in which I'd think about asking for my money back. What happened to bring that about?


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 Post subject: Re: Get Your Money Back
PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:33 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:23 am
Posts: 452
Location: Denver, CO
Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Chaz wrote:
Dharmakara wrote:
Nice quote, very true, but I seriously doubt that he ever refunded money to any of his students when asked.


Actually, I've seen people get the money back at Shambhala centers and got my own money back once. All I had to do was ask. I doubt it would have been any different in CTR's day.


You all asked for your money back? I can't imagine a situation in which I'd think about asking for my money back. What happened to bring that about?


I took part in an all-day intro to meditation class at the Shambhala center in Boulder. Two other people in the class must have decided that they didn't like the class or something. Thier money was refunded before they left.

I paid for a Level 2 Shambhala Training weekend and decided to bow out after the firday nite talk. I got my check back.


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 Post subject: Re: Get Your Money Back
PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:40 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 9:04 pm
Posts: 1727
plwk wrote:
The Late Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche

My advice to you is not to undertake the spiritual path.
It is too difficult, too long, and is too demanding.
I suggest you ask for your money back, and go home.
This is not a picnic.
It is really going to ask everything of you.
So, it is best not to begin.
However, if you do begin, it is best to finish.


Ah, the great Trungpa Rinpoche! I haven't read nearly enough of his writings. Thanks for sharing this quote.

I can relate to what he's saying. Pursuing a spiritual path seriously requires a lot of time. This means that when people ask you, "What did you do this weekend?" or "What did you do during your vacation?" you often have to reply that you were at some Buddhist event. This often makes people stunned into silence and start to avoid you, so it can be hard to try to balance a western social life with serious spiritual practice.

If you go to Buddhist events less often or practice less, then you will feel depressed and guilty because you feel you aren't doing enough. So practicing Buddhism in the west can often lead to the oscillation between these two types of sadness.

Eh, sometime I'd like to do a long retreat to completely get away from these conflicts.

I never "wanted my money back" in the sense Trungpa means. Continuing to study Buddhism often fills me with joy and wonder. However, I think that some of my relatives wouldn't mind exchanging me for some money! They place no value in spiritual things and only value material things.

Materialistic people often don't mix well with spiritual people.


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 Post subject: Re: Get Your Money Back
PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:05 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2011 8:36 pm
Posts: 477
I find the sheer honesty of the statement wonderful.

so is he giving money back to the people he thinks should not have started.

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 Post subject: Re: Get Your Money Back
PostPosted: Wed Jan 26, 2011 5:02 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:12 am
Posts: 247
Trungpa Rinpoche was speaking figuratively, as was his custom, and not literally about refunding money (I was there). However, the intent behind the words is clear enough: "Better not to start on this path", he would say of Vajrayana, "but if you do, you'd better make a good job of it".

Chris

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"All the sublime teachings, so profound--to throw away one and then grab yet another will not bear even a single fruit. Persevere, therefore, in simply one."
--Dudjom Rinpoche, "Nectar for the Hearts of Fortunate Disciples. Song No. 8"


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