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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 6:22 pm 
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Andrew108 wrote:
It seems to me that their craving has increased rather than decreased.


How would you know? You are not them. You are not in a position to judge anyone's practice apart from your own.

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How can you not practice the highest Dharma
at this time of obtaining a perfect human body?

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 6:36 pm 
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Dudjom Linpga (1835–1904) was supposed to have had 13 disciples, iirc, that attained rainbow body.

Recently a practitioner in the Dudjom lineage achieved rainbow body, Khenpo Acho,

http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?titl ... _Ach%C3%B6

This was studied by the Jesuit Father Tiso: http://francistiso.com/Rainbow_Body.html


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 6:40 pm 
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Kunzang wrote:
Dudjom Linpga (1835–1904) was supposed to have had 13 disciples, iirc, that attained rainbow body.

Recently a practitioner in the Dudjom lineage achieved rainbow body, Khenpo Acho,

http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?titl ... _Ach%C3%B6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This was studied by the Jesuit Father Tiso: http://francistiso.com/Rainbow_Body.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


AWESOME! :twothumbsup:


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 7:37 pm 
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Malcolm wrote:
Andrew108 wrote:

Dzogchen attitude is quite unique. Very special. The idea of wanting to have rainbow body or wanting to achieve enlightenment doesn't fit.


I guess, according to you, that ChNN is a fool then for having stated countless times that he hopes he can achieve rainbow body, that he wants to achieve rainbow body. I guess his attitude is not Dzogchen at all.

M


That's an unfortunate projection on your part. ChNN has stated countless times that we need to go beyond dualistic vision. It is our fixation to the dualistic state we find ourselves in that is blocking the manifestation of realization. When our spiritual aims become part of this dualistic vision then our practice will fall short.

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"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 7:40 pm 
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ZOOM wrote:
So could anyone explain to me why Dzogchen training should need pranayama or any other kind of winds training to lead to the goal of enlightenment & rainbow body?
Or is it simply a wrong claim?

According to Lopön Tenzin Namdak Rinpoche, entering the Natural State of mind and staying in it is all that is necessary to attain ultimately rainbow body.
If that is true, why wasting time with training in the channels with the winds etc.?


To recognize, to stabilize or to overcome obstacles

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 7:43 pm 
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ZOOM wrote:
asunthatneversets wrote:
The body is very important in Dzogchen, maintaining the health and integrity of ones channels and a good circulation of winds are good things to be mindful of.

Apart from the anatomical aspects (of the body) that some Dzogchen principles are related to, health in general is if course important, a healthy body means a longer life, and a longer life means more time for practice.


I understand that.
But for example in the 6 Yogas Of Naropa, winds /channels training in form of gtumo is the base for all the "higher" practices. Without gtumo training, the "higher" practices won't work / lead to the attainment of the illusory body.

Therefore I wonder if getting into /achieving & keeping "the Natural State of mind" in Dzogchen which leads to the rainbow body maybe also is only possible with some similar kind of preliminary base work in form of winds/ channel training but nobody talks about it openly because it's secret.
So the question for me is: Can you achieve "the Natural State" and rainbow body without preliminary energy & breath work or not?


Six Yogas is tantra Mahamudra. There's also essence Mahamudra. Dzogchen and Mahamudra systems are analogous. The teaching styles differ is all. Don't fixate on mechanics. It's a waste of time. All depends on the teacher. Nature of mind alone is the path. But sometimes the teacher will recommend methods. It depends on the relationship.

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Last edited by Crazywisdom on Sun Jul 13, 2014 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 7:44 pm 
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Andrew108 wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
Andrew108 wrote:

Dzogchen attitude is quite unique. Very special. The idea of wanting to have rainbow body or wanting to achieve enlightenment doesn't fit.


I guess, according to you, that ChNN is a fool then for having stated countless times that he hopes he can achieve rainbow body, that he wants to achieve rainbow body. I guess his attitude is not Dzogchen at all.

M


That's an unfortunate projection on your part. ChNN has stated countless times that we need to go beyond dualistic vision. It is our fixation to the dualistic state we find ourselves in that is blocking the manifestation of realization. When our spiritual aims become part of this dualistic vision then our practice will fall short.


You are changing the subject. Address the issue at hand. How do you reconcile what you have stated with ChNN's stated desire to attain rainbow body?

You have basically stated that anyone who desires to achieve rainbow body is a fool.

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འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

How can you not practice the highest Dharma
at this time of obtaining a perfect human body?

-- Jetsun Dragpa Gyaltsen


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 7:44 pm 
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Crazywisdom wrote:
ZOOM wrote:
So could anyone explain to me why Dzogchen training should need pranayama or any other kind of winds training to lead to the goal of enlightenment & rainbow body?
Or is it simply a wrong claim?

According to Lopön Tenzin Namdak Rinpoche, entering the Natural State of mind and staying in it is all that is necessary to attain ultimately rainbow body.
If that is true, why wasting time with training in the channels with the winds etc.?


To recognize, to stabilize or to overcome obstacles


What kind of obstacles if I might ask? :smile:


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 7:47 pm 
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ZOOM wrote:
Crazywisdom wrote:
ZOOM wrote:
So could anyone explain to me why Dzogchen training should need pranayama or any other kind of winds training to lead to the goal of enlightenment & rainbow body?
Or is it simply a wrong claim?

According to Lopön Tenzin Namdak Rinpoche, entering the Natural State of mind and staying in it is all that is necessary to attain ultimately rainbow body.
If that is true, why wasting time with training in the channels with the winds etc.?


To recognize, to stabilize or to overcome obstacles


What kind of obstacles if I might ask? :smile:

Disease can be one. Maybe also restlessness. Imbalances of the elements.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:03 pm 
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Crazywisdom wrote:
Disease can be one. Maybe also restlessness. Imbalances of the elements.


I understand, thanks! :smile:


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:29 pm 
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asunthatneversets wrote:
The view of Dzogchen proper is unfabricated and free of mind, so assertions which convey that desiring liberation, or working towards liberation in a solely causal setting, are 'delusional' is really just stating that these attitudes relate to the mind. In the sense that mind mistakes itself as a subject which relates to objects and therefore mind objectifies awakening as something it can produce or acquire via causal means.

Dzogchen is criticizing this type of approach, but is not saying one should abandon an aspiration for liberation.


No need to abandon, and no need to create either. If you have recognition and confidence in the non-abiding nature then you just rest in that, and everything accomplishes itself. If you are aspiring for that non-abiding state, then you do not have deep enough recognition or confidence (they really go hand in hand) to really practice "Dzogchen proper" which is totally beyond reliance on any conventional mode of thought or conceptualization regarding the appearances and manifestations that happen in ones field of awareness, and this includes any reliance upon an aspiration or intention to become liberated, since in the ultimate nature such an intention or aspiration, or even such a thought is literally not needed.

The problem with calling something "Dzogchen proper" is that there is at least three classifications of Dzogchen, space, mind and pith instructions. Each has a slightly different view and emphasis on different points of practice, experience, and so forth.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:38 pm 
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Gyurme Kundrol wrote:
since in the ultimate nature such an intention or aspiration, or even such a thought is literally not needed.


Correction, does not exist.

But Dzogchen practice is predicated first of all on vidyā, rigpa, knowledge. Without that experiential knowledge we call "rigpa" all these nice Dzogchen words are empty of meaning.

_________________
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http://www.bhaisajya.net
http://www.bhaisajya.guru
http://www.sakyapa.net
འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔

How can you not practice the highest Dharma
at this time of obtaining a perfect human body?

-- Jetsun Dragpa Gyaltsen


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 8:45 pm 
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Malcolm wrote:
Gyurme Kundrol wrote:
since in the ultimate nature such an intention or aspiration, or even such a thought is literally not needed.


Correction, does not exist.

But Dzogchen practice is predicated first of all on vidyā, rigpa, knowledge. Without that experiential knowledge we call "rigpa" all these nice Dzogchen words are empty of meaning.


"Thinking 'I don't need this practice' is a big need, not the needlessness of Dharmata." --Gampopa

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 13, 2014 10:36 pm 
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Gyurme Kundrol wrote:
No need to abandon, and no need to create either. If you have recognition and confidence in the non-abiding nature then you just rest in that, and everything accomplishes itself. If you are aspiring for that non-abiding state, then you do not have deep enough recognition or confidence (they really go hand in hand) to really practice "Dzogchen proper" which is totally beyond reliance on any conventional mode of thought or conceptualization regarding the appearances and manifestations that happen in ones field of awareness, and this includes any reliance upon an aspiration or intention to become liberated, since in the ultimate nature such an intention or aspiration, or even such a thought is literally not needed.

The problem with calling something "Dzogchen proper" is that there is at least three classifications of Dzogchen, space, mind and pith instructions. Each has a slightly different view and emphasis on different points of practice, experience, and so forth.

"Dzogchen proper", meaning; the unfabricated and direct, experiential view of dharmatā.

In the ultimate nature, intention and aspiration are inapplicable, but most are not able to rest in that nature continuously. Even my teacher Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche says he is not in the state of contemplation at all times, and has said when you are not in the state of contemplation then you are in the relative condition, and relative things apply to you.

So there is two sides to this for practitioners on the path; when you are resting in the view of uncontrived dharmatā then of course you are totally beyond concepts and require nothing, the view guides the conduct (which being inseparable, are perfectly balanced) and that is that. On the other hand, during post-equipoise (which is assuming one has genuine recognition in the first place, otherwise 'post-equipoise' does not apply for there is no initial equipoise to speak of), conduct must support the view. For one who has just entered the actual path, instances of post-equipoise will take up the majority of their time. As familiarization deepens and instances of equipoise are extended, then the need for contrived conduct will decrease. When it gets to the point that equipoise and post-equipoise are blended, then "everything accomplishes itself"... however on the outset this is not the case.

Regarding the classifications: like you mentioned, aspects of the three classifications will cater to different facets of that single view, but at the same time there are aspects of each class which can be considered to be complete paths in themselves as well. Either way, the view [lta ba] is the view... the system is a means to recognize the view, gain confidence in the view, and continue in the view.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 4:45 pm 
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Pictures of rainbow body transformation and foot imprints into stone! :twothumbsup:

http://jan51511.pixnet.net/blog/post/168425643-


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:57 pm 
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:namaste:


and it shines out in all forms, always all good;


All good posts.

:good: :good: :good:

my 2 cents.

Rainbow body, atom-ic body, body of light, great transfer, little transfer, 6 or 4 lights, 7 stages of Yangtig etc, are all intellectual words to describe the personal experiances of advanced practicioners. These advanced practicioners achive refined states of being, different from the ordinary, and supreamly helpful to themselves and others, from the result of their many years of practice and keeping pure lineage commitments.

Unless you have a lot of good karma with these practices, from past lives, most practicioners will not be able to achive these advanced stages of practice without going through the many years, and perhaps lifetimes, of strict training that the Tibetans have. Rainbow body, also taught in the Bonpo tradition, is most often associated with the Nyingmapa tradition. Nyingmapa Masters have been teaching to Westerners, publicly in the West since 1970, and perhaps before, quietly, in the East.

Does anyone know of any Westerners; Buddhist, Taoist, Sufi, or etc. who have a little quiet and contentment? I can think of five or six, myself, not included. :smile:

Most of the old timers are still scrambling round for advanced teachings like hungry ghosts seeking pure water, myself included.

Show me a practicioner of Yantra Yoga or Vajra Dance who has contentment and a quiet mind. I can think of a few, but none of them famous. If Vajra Dance and Yantra Yoga are of benefit to you, then include them in your path. Many practicioners do find these useful and benificial but perhaps many do not. There is no requirement to practice Yantra Yoga and / or Vajra Dance, in Dzogchen.

So maybe it is better to forget about the advanced practices, and practicioners who obtain Rainbow Body, and do what is useful and practical to quiet your mind, now.

Do what works for you, as you are in your presently sensed experiance and reality.

If you are a student of a Dzogchen Master, or of the Vajrayana, maybe it would help to first establish a base of Theravada meditation by attending some meditation classes or by going to a 10 day silent meditation retreat.

I played catch up, after many years of Vajrayana / Dzogchen, study and practice, by living in a Burmese monastary for three months.

Then work on a Nundro, of any sort, (SMS included) and build up your capacity and level of practice, slowly over time. I did two Nundros, and still study and practice SMS.

Yes, in Dzogchen there is no cause and realization / awareness is pure from the beginning and spontaneously arising, but this is from the side, in Dzogchen, of Guru-yoga, non-dual instant presence.

When you are not in this state, then you can choose, if you are a follower of ChNNR, to practice ANY of the more than 120 secondary practices, that he has taught in the more than 560 retreats that he has given since 1976, provided you get the lung, reading transmission, for each practice. You are not limited to Yantra Yoga and Vajra Dance. I've been following Yantra Yoga and Vajra Dance for as long as they have been taught, and for me, neither is an important secondary practice that I include in my regular practice. For some, these are their main secondary practices. Not for me and perhaps not, for many others, too.

I do my best to integrate with teachings and practices from all spiritual traditions and sometimes practice Taoist yoga, and sometimes say Sufi mantras. I never mix practices from the various traditiions and lineages but keep each separate and make use of each, as appropriate, and useful.

Jesus, Chuan Tsu, Hafez, and Rumi speak to me as much as any of the Dzogchen texts. I have visions of Jesus and Mary and really enjoy to sing Christian Hymns, especially Sacred Harp / Shape note. I sometimes go to church and enjoy the Doxology and taking communion. All is grist for the Dzogchen mill, Instant Presence.

That is why it is called the Great Perfection or the Great Completion.

ChNNR has stated that, as a Dzogchen practicioner. it is OK to use methods and techniques, from anywhere, that work for you.

Certainly it is always for the best to seek, and follow the advice of your spiritual teacher. Without taking the guidance of an enlightened spiritual Master it is easy to make mistakes. There are some enlightened Dzogchen Masters who tell their students to limit their involvement with other lineages /teachers, and this advice is completely correct, too.

So in spiritual paths of any form, or name, you need to assemble the building blocks of what works, and practice what is of practical usefullness and benefit.

In Dzogchen, this can be the dualistic construction of attending a Direct Introduction, Pointing Out, initiation, as ChNNR gives regulary many times each year, (World-Wide Transmission) and as a practical matter in each retreat, using this dualistic construction to obtain the state of instant presence, beyond dualism.

This path is spoken of elequently in "The Song of the Cookoo,"

http://www.keithdowman.net/dzogchen/cuckoos_song.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;"

and then apply any of the 120 secondary practices (after receiving lung transmission):

viewtopic.php?f=48&t=4052&start=3320#p165748" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;"

So words can be used to point beyond words.



That said, perhaps reading aloud a public togal text, on the bus to Kailash, is - of practical use to no one, especially the reader, who would challange the traditional secracy of such teachings; like reading a "secret" cook book without having any foodstuffs, cook pot or fire, and perhaps talking about Dzogchen and Rainbow Body on a public web forum is a bit the same.

Perhaps there is more benefit to remain in contemplation for a moment, than to read all the words on the web.


:heart: :buddha1: :heart:


Homage to the Spiritual Masters. May they live long, in good health and with success in all things.


:heart:


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:03 am 
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ZOOM wrote:
I understand that.
But for example in the 6 Yogas Of Naropa, winds /channels training in form of gtumo is the base for all the "higher" practices. Without gtumo training, the "higher" practices won't work / lead to the attainment of the illusory body.

Therefore I wonder if getting into /achieving & keeping "the Natural State of mind" in Dzogchen which leads to the rainbow body maybe also is only possible with some similar kind of preliminary base work in form of winds/ channel training but nobody talks about it openly because it's secret.
So the question for me is: Can you achieve "the Natural State" and rainbow body without preliminary energy & breath work or not?

One can achieve the "natural state" simply with DI. To achieve Rainbow body you need to practice thogal or yangti. That doesn't mean you cannot achieve liberation if you do not practice those however, as you can, in the bardo. This is also a possibility.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:00 am 
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or Longde..

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:41 pm 
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Gyurme Kundrol wrote:
asunthatneversets wrote:
The view of Dzogchen proper is unfabricated and free of mind, so assertions which convey that desiring liberation, or working towards liberation in a solely causal setting, are 'delusional' is really just stating that these attitudes relate to the mind. In the sense that mind mistakes itself as a subject which relates to objects and therefore mind objectifies awakening as something it can produce or acquire via causal means.

Dzogchen is criticizing this type of approach, but is not saying one should abandon an aspiration for liberation.


No need to abandon, and no need to create either. If you have recognition and confidence in the non-abiding nature then you just rest in that, and everything accomplishes itself. If you are aspiring for that non-abiding state, then you do not have deep enough recognition or confidence (they really go hand in hand) to really practice "Dzogchen proper" which is totally beyond reliance on any conventional mode of thought or conceptualization regarding the appearances and manifestations that happen in ones field of awareness, and this includes any reliance upon an aspiration or intention to become liberated, since in the ultimate nature such an intention or aspiration, or even such a thought is literally not needed.

The problem with calling something "Dzogchen proper" is that there is at least three classifications of Dzogchen, space, mind and pith instructions. Each has a slightly different view and emphasis on different points of practice, experience, and so forth.


:namaste:

Good posts all :twothumbsup:

For Gyurme Kundrol:

First welcome aboard. :namaste:

If you are comfortable to do so, can you please comment on the three classifications of space, mind and pith instructions, explaining the the slightly different view and emphasis on different points of practice and where Rainbow Body fits in within these classifications. Perhaps the clarification of the traditional presentation structure of Dzogchen would help many people who might benefit from this information, myself included.

:namaste:

oldbob


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:27 pm 
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oldbob wrote:
:namaste:


and it shines out in all forms, always all good;


All good posts.

:good: :good: :good:

my 2 cents.

Rainbow body, atom-ic body, body of light, great transfer, little transfer, 6 or 4 lights, 7 stages of Yangtig etc, are all intellectual words to describe the personal experiances of advanced practicioners. These advanced practicioners achive refined states of being, different from the ordinary, and supreamly helpful to themselves and others, from the result of their many years of practice and keeping pure lineage commitments.

Unless you have a lot of good karma with these practices, from past lives, most practicioners will not be able to achive these advanced stages of practice without going through the many years, and perhaps lifetimes, of strict training that the Tibetans have. Rainbow body, also taught in the Bonpo tradition, is most often associated with the Nyingmapa tradition. Nyingmapa Masters have been teaching to Westerners, publicly in the West since 1970, and perhaps before, quietly, in the East.

Does anyone know of any Westerners; Buddhist, Taoist, Sufi, or etc. who have a little quiet and contentment? I can think of five or six, myself, not included. :smile:

Most of the old timers are still scrambling round for advanced teachings like hungry ghosts seeking pure water, myself included.

Show me a practicioner of Yantra Yoga or Vajra Dance who has contentment and a quiet mind. I can think of a few, but none of them famous. If Vajra Dance and Yantra Yoga are of benefit to you, then include them in your path. Many practicioners do find these useful and benificial but perhaps many do not. There is no requirement to practice Yantra Yoga and / or Vajra Dance, in Dzogchen.

So maybe it is better to forget about the advanced practices, and practicioners who obtain Rainbow Body, and do what is useful and practical to quiet your mind, now.

Do what works for you, as you are in your presently sensed experiance and reality.

If you are a student of a Dzogchen Master, or of the Vajrayana, maybe it would help to first establish a base of Theravada meditation by attending some meditation classes or by going to a 10 day silent meditation retreat.

I played catch up, after many years of Vajrayana / Dzogchen, study and practice, by living in a Burmese monastary for three months.

Then work on a Nundro, of any sort, (SMS included) and build up your capacity and level of practice, slowly over time. I did two Nundros, and still study and practice SMS.

Yes, in Dzogchen there is no cause and realization / awareness is pure from the beginning and spontaneously arising, but this is from the side, in Dzogchen, of Guru-yoga, non-dual instant presence.

When you are not in this state, then you can choose, if you are a follower of ChNNR, to practice ANY of the more than 120 secondary practices, that he has taught in the more than 560 retreats that he has given since 1976, provided you get the lung, reading transmission, for each practice. You are not limited to Yantra Yoga and Vajra Dance. I've been following Yantra Yoga and Vajra Dance for as long as they have been taught, and for me, neither is an important secondary practice that I include in my regular practice. For some, these are their main secondary practices. Not for me and perhaps not, for many others, too.

I do my best to integrate with teachings and practices from all spiritual traditions and sometimes practice Taoist yoga, and sometimes say Sufi mantras. I never mix practices from the various traditiions and lineages but keep each separate and make use of each, as appropriate, and useful.

Jesus, Chuan Tsu, Hafez, and Rumi speak to me as much as any of the Dzogchen texts. I have visions of Jesus and Mary and really enjoy to sing Christian Hymns, especially Sacred Harp / Shape note. I sometimes go to church and enjoy the Doxology and taking communion. All is grist for the Dzogchen mill, Instant Presence.

That is why it is called the Great Perfection or the Great Completion.

ChNNR has stated that, as a Dzogchen practicioner. it is OK to use methods and techniques, from anywhere, that work for you.

Certainly it is always for the best to seek, and follow the advice of your spiritual teacher. Without taking the guidance of an enlightened spiritual Master it is easy to make mistakes. There are some enlightened Dzogchen Masters who tell their students to limit their involvement with other lineages /teachers, and this advice is completely correct, too.

So in spiritual paths of any form, or name, you need to assemble the building blocks of what works, and practice what is of practical usefullness and benefit.

In Dzogchen, this can be the dualistic construction of attending a Direct Introduction, Pointing Out, initiation, as ChNNR gives regulary many times each year, (World-Wide Transmission) and as a practical matter in each retreat, using this dualistic construction to obtain the state of instant presence, beyond dualism.

This path is spoken of elequently in "The Song of the Cookoo,"

http://www.keithdowman.net/dzogchen/cuckoos_song.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;"

and then apply any of the 120 secondary practices (after receiving lung transmission):

viewtopic.php?f=48&t=4052&start=3320#p165748" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;"

So words can be used to point beyond words.



That said, perhaps reading aloud a public togal text, on the bus to Kailash, is - of practical use to no one, especially the reader, who would challange the traditional secracy of such teachings; like reading a "secret" cook book without having any foodstuffs, cook pot or fire, and perhaps talking about Dzogchen and Rainbow Body on a public web forum is a bit the same.

Perhaps there is more benefit to remain in contemplation for a moment, than to read all the words on the web.


:heart: :buddha1: :heart:


Homage to the Spiritual Masters. May they live long, in good health and with success in all things.


:heart:


Great post. Thank you.


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