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PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 9:34 pm 
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zerwe wrote:
kirtu wrote:
Interestingly Asanga's Abhidharmasamuccaya is the presentation of the Abhidharma from a Cittamatrin perspective.

In the translators introduction to Shantarakshita's, The Adornment of The Middle Way there is what I have found to be a very good discussion surrounding the Chittamatra point of view as related to the writings of Asanga and Vasubandhu.

...The term "Chittamatra" has therefore been called into question as an appropriate name for the teachings of Asanga and Vasubandhu, preference being given to "Yogachara," a name that more obviously evokes the meditative context in which these teachings were irst formulated.'

There is a wealth of more information surrounding Chittamatra within this context contained in this publication. pp 26-32


Thanks Zerwe! Is this Shantarakshita's, The Adornment of The Middle Way with commentary by Mipham Rinpoche translated by the Padmakara Translation Group? Unfortunately that was one of the texts that I had to give away in preparation for selling my condo.

Kirt

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 10:29 pm 
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kirtu wrote:
zerwe wrote:
kirtu wrote:
Interestingly Asanga's Abhidharmasamuccaya is the presentation of the Abhidharma from a Cittamatrin perspective.

In the translators introduction to Shantarakshita's, The Adornment of The Middle Way there is what I have found to be a very good discussion surrounding the Chittamatra point of view as related to the writings of Asanga and Vasubandhu.

...The term "Chittamatra" has therefore been called into question as an appropriate name for the teachings of Asanga and Vasubandhu, preference being given to "Yogachara," a name that more obviously evokes the meditative context in which these teachings were irst formulated.'

There is a wealth of more information surrounding Chittamatra within this context contained in this publication. pp 26-32


Thanks Zerwe! Is this Shantarakshita's, The Adornment of The Middle Way with commentary by Mipham Rinpoche translated by the Padmakara Translation Group? Unfortunately that was one of the texts that I had to give away in preparation for selling my condo.

Kirt
Yes it is. I should have made that clear.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 3:42 am 
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BTW, I have been lurking about this thread for a little while and has anyone made a decision on where to start? I recall someone suggested Chp 3 of Vasubandhu's Abhidharmakosa, but have yet to see anyone follow up on that suggestion. The activity seems to be limited to Kirt and Will as of late.
with peace and loving kindness,
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:41 pm 
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kirtu wrote:
I was looking for an outline to guide study and found this very basic outline at the Rigpa Wiki

The text is divided into eight topics:
1. The elements (Skt. dhātu)
2. The faculties (Skt. indriya)
3. The world (Skt. loka)
4. Actions (Skt. karma)
5. 'Subtle developers' (Skt. anuśaya) (i.e. negative emotions)
6. The path and the individual (Skt. mārgaprahāṇa)
7. Wisdom (Skt. jñāna)
8. Meditative equipoise (Skt. samāpatti)

Maybe we can find a more in-depth traditional outline or create our own.

...

Kirt


Kirt,

Sorry I missed this earlier, but although these are the chapter headings, the actual "outline" is the four noble truths. Look:


1. The elements (Skt. dhātu)
2. The faculties (Skt. indriya)
3. The world (Skt. loka)
These are all just synonyms for "the world", ie. duhkha.

4. Actions (Skt. karma)
5. 'Subtle developers' (Skt. anuśaya) (i.e. negative emotions)
These are the causes of duhkha, ie. klesa.

6. The path and the individual (Skt. mārgaprahāṇa)
This includes the various types of aryas, ie. those who have realized cessation nirodha.

7. Wisdom (Skt. jñāna)
8. Meditative equipoise (Skt. samāpatti)
The two principle aspects of the path, marga.

You'll actually find that a large number of smaller Abhidharma manuals from this time period, including the Kosa, take this four noble truth model as their basic outline.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:45 pm 
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kirtu wrote:
kirtu wrote:
The next paragraph states that the Buddha possessed the antidote to ignorance and definitely destroyed all ignorance wrt all knowable things so that it cannot rearise.


The paragraph actually reads:
Quote:
By this, the Buddha, the Blessed One (1), is sufficiently designated,for he alone, through the possession of the antidote to ignorance (v 60), has definitely destroyed all ignorance with respect to knowable things, so that it cannot rearise.


[b]Chapter 1 endnote 1[b] :
Quote:
The authors of the Vinayavibhasa say: (1) there is a Buddha who is not a Bhagavat *, namely the Pratyekabuddha, because he is a svayambhu**, that is because he has attained Bodhi by himself, because he has not fulfilled the task of danaparamita, etc. *** (vii. 34); (2) there is a Bhagavat who is not a Buddha, namely the Bodhisattva in his last existence ****, (3) there is a Buddha Bhagavat; and (4) there are persons who are neither Buddha nor Bhagavat (Vyakhya, 3.12). One can also say that the Sravakas, or Disciples, are Buddhas (Aryadeva, Sataka, 270), for they have acquired Bodhi (vi 67).


* a Conqueror ?
** self-arisen ?
*** the Bodhisattvas perfection of giving resulting in a great mass of merit. Presumably the etc. refers to the other 5 perfections of the six perfections of the Paramitayana, the Bodhisattva vehicle of the perfections.
**** before becoming a world-conquering Dharma dispensation preaching Buddha like Shakyamuni.

I am unsure of the further notations (vii 34), (vi 67). Perhaps they are footnotes in the introduction.

Kirt


"bhagavat" is "one endowed with bhaga", ie. all good qualities. Often translated as "blessed one".
A "conqueror" or "jina" is slightly different in meaning.

"svayambhu" here is literally "self-arisen", but this means "one whose awakening was due to his own efforts" and not those of another, ie. another teacher. It does not mean a literally "self-arisen" in the sense of not having a cause, though this term often gets mistranslated in this fashion.

And of course, it is not referring to the stupa of the same name in Kathmandu!

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 11, 2010 3:11 pm 
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Huifeng wrote:
Sorry I missed this earlier, but although these are the chapter headings, the actual "outline" is the four noble truths.


WOW! :woohoo:

I saw the theme of the 4NT's running throughout Asanga's Abhidharmasamuccaya and saw the theme running around Vasubandhu's Abhidharmakosabhasyam but didn't realize that it was the actual outline.

Quote:
1. The elements (Skt. dhātu)
2. The faculties (Skt. indriya)
3. The world (Skt. loka)
These are all just synonyms for "the world", ie. duhkha.

4. Actions (Skt. karma)
5. 'Subtle developers' (Skt. anuśaya) (i.e. negative emotions)
These are the causes of duhkha, ie. klesa.

6. The path and the individual (Skt. mārgaprahāṇa)
This includes the various types of aryas, ie. those who have realized cessation nirodha.

7. Wisdom (Skt. jñāna)
8. Meditative equipoise (Skt. samāpatti)
The two principle aspects of the path, marga.

You'll actually find that a large number of smaller Abhidharma manuals from this time period, including the Kosa, take this four noble truth model as their basic outline.


Thanks!

Kirt

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 10:25 pm 
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I just chanced upon someone's blog, and he posted excellent (in my amateurish view anyway) materials on the Kosa.

http://abhidharmakosa.wordpress.com/201 ... llo-world/

Check out his July postings as well - he has already posted study materials on the karika!

It appears Ven Huifeng is acquainted with Korin (the blogger) as well.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:10 pm 
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Huifeng wrote:
There are some other texts earlier than the Kosa, on which it was actually modeled, such as the Amrta-rasa, etc. They are smaller, more concise, to the point, less technical arguments. Ven Prof Dhammajoti has translated one of them, Abhidharma-avatara. http://www.hku.hk/buddhism/Publication_new.html


Hi Venerable,

I was looking at the "Sarvastivada Abhidharma" by Professor Bhikkhu KL Dhammajoti. Is this a condensed version of the major points found in Pruden's Kosa?

Huseng wrote:
I have a copy (on loan from the library :smile: but nobody else I think would ever use it but me) of Analytical Study of the Abhidharmakosa by Sukomal Chaudhuri (1983) which details and summarizes the text chapter by chapter and also provides a good introduction.




Hi Huseng,

I can't seem to find a place to order this book. Do you have any recommendations?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:33 pm 
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mr. gordo wrote:
Huifeng wrote:
There are some other texts earlier than the Kosa, on which it was actually modeled, such as the Amrta-rasa, etc. They are smaller, more concise, to the point, less technical arguments. Ven Prof Dhammajoti has translated one of them, Abhidharma-avatara. http://www.hku.hk/buddhism/Publication_new.html


Hi Venerable,

I was looking at the "Sarvastivada Abhidharma" by Professor Bhikkhu KL Dhammajoti. Is this a condensed version of the major points found in Pruden's Kosa?

Huseng wrote:
I have a copy (on loan from the library :smile: but nobody else I think would ever use it but me) of Analytical Study of the Abhidharmakosa by Sukomal Chaudhuri (1983) which details and summarizes the text chapter by chapter and also provides a good introduction.




Hi Huseng,

I can't seem to find a place to order this book. Do you have any recommendations?


I found this info. Although the preference seems to buy in person at their locale It does gives instruction for mail order.

Title: Sarvastivada Abhidharma
Author: Professor Bhikkhu KL Dhammajoti
Publisher: Centre of Buddhist Studies, HKU
4th Edition, 586 pages +
ISBN: 978-988-99296-5-7
Date of Press: August 2009
Selling Price: HK$220, US$30 (excluding postage)

For orders within Hong Kong, please buy locally at the Centre of Buddhist Studies, HKU, Rm 201, 2/F May Hall, Pokfulam Road, Hong Kong. Only cash and cheques accepted. For mail order, please fill in the order form and mail it to us with the cheque for the relevant amount. The book will be sent to you upon receipt of your payment for book price plus packaging & postage (HK$40 for one copy).

For overseas orders, please fill in the order form and send it via mail/email/fax according to the relevant payment method. The book will be sent by seamail to your delivery address upon receipt of your bank draft for book price plus packing & postage (US$10 for one copy). If required, books can be sent by airmail at extra costs.

For airmail / bulk purchase / other enquiries, please contact us at (852) 2241 5075 or email to buddhism@hku.hk under subject "Book order".

* All cheques/bank drafts should be made payable to 'The University of Hong Kong '
* Cash will NOT be accepted for mail order

Shaun :namaste:


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:36 pm 
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mr. gordo wrote:
Huifeng wrote:
There are some other texts earlier than the Kosa, on which it was actually modeled, such as the Amrta-rasa, etc. They are smaller, more concise, to the point, less technical arguments. Ven Prof Dhammajoti has translated one of them, Abhidharma-avatara. http://www.hku.hk/buddhism/Publication_new.html


Hi Venerable,

I was looking at the "Sarvastivada Abhidharma" by Professor Bhikkhu KL Dhammajoti. Is this a condensed version of the major points found in Pruden's Kosa?

Huseng wrote:
I have a copy (on loan from the library :smile: but nobody else I think would ever use it but me) of Analytical Study of the Abhidharmakosa by Sukomal Chaudhuri (1983) which details and summarizes the text chapter by chapter and also provides a good introduction.




Hi Huseng,

I can't seem to find a place to order this book. Do you have any recommendations?


And, Analytical Study of the Abhidharmakosa by Sukomal Chaudhuri (1983)

@

http://www.printsasia.com/BookDetails.aspx?Id=647417744

Shaun :namaste:


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:25 pm 
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Thank you zerwe! :smile:

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:19 am 
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Hey y'all. I've skimmed a bit of the thread and had the thought that I might know of some brief texts that could help get you guys started.

Over several yrs, the venerable Khenchen Palden Sherab and Khenpo Tsewang Dongyal taught in a very pithy way on the 4 tenet systems - Vaibhashika, Sautrantika, Cittamatra, and Madhyamaka - and these teachings have been both transcribed and put into book format and recorded and made into audio cd's. So it's like 2 weeks of teachings, if I remember correctly, on each system (although Vaibhashika and Sautrantika are taught simultaneously, following Longchenpa's system of pointing out the points on which they agree and then the points on which they differ). So, it's kind of like the pithy synopsis, while at times going pretty deep and detailed into some difficult points. There are some q&a sessions included, as well, which often delve into topics such as why the Abidharmakoshabasyam is favored over the Abidharma Samuccaya in the Tibetan traditions, and how the Kosha's teachings are relevant and useful in a Vajrayana context. I think these teachings could serve as a great primer for understanding the Kosha, and at $18 a piece they are affordable and easy to read. For those not practicing Vajrayana, if my memory serves, the main presentations the lamas offer are pretty much according to each system itself, with the Vajrayana-related material primarily occurring during the q&a sessions. Those occurred at the end of each day in the live teachings, so I imagine the editors probably put them all together in a separate section in the edited version appearing in these books. Anyhow, in case anyone might find these teachings useful, here's a link to (1) the first text in the series and (2) a package deal for all six texts in the series:

http://www.padmasambhava.org/cart/catal ... cts_id=110

http://www.padmasambhava.org/cart/catal ... cts_id=108

* Each text shown in the second link can be purchased separately and is listed somewhere in the "Books by Khenpo Rinpoches" section.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:27 pm 
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Pema Rigdzin wrote:
Hey y'all. I've skimmed a bit of the thread and had the thought that I might know of some brief texts that could help get you guys started.

Over several yrs, the venerable Khenchen Palden Sherab and Khenpo Tsewang Dongyal taught in a very pithy way on the 4 tenet systems - Vaibhashika, Sautrantika, Cittamatra, and Madhyamaka - and these teachings have been both transcribed and put into book format and recorded and made into audio cd's. So it's like 2 weeks of teachings, if I remember correctly, on each system (although Vaibhashika and Sautrantika are taught simultaneously, following Longchenpa's system of pointing out the points on which they agree and then the points on which they differ). So, it's kind of like the pithy synopsis, while at times going pretty deep and detailed into some difficult points. There are some q&a sessions included, as well, which often delve into topics such as why the Abidharmakoshabasyam is favored over the Abidharma Samuccaya in the Tibetan traditions, and how the Kosha's teachings are relevant and useful in a Vajrayana context. I think these teachings could serve as a great primer for understanding the Kosha, and at $18 a piece they are affordable and easy to read. For those not practicing Vajrayana, if my memory serves, the main presentations the lamas offer are pretty much according to each system itself, with the Vajrayana-related material primarily occurring during the q&a sessions. Those occurred at the end of each day in the live teachings, so I imagine the editors probably put them all together in a separate section in the edited version appearing in these books. Anyhow, in case anyone might find these teachings useful, here's a link to (1) the first text in the series and (2) a package deal for all six texts in the series:

http://www.padmasambhava.org/cart/catal ... cts_id=110

http://www.padmasambhava.org/cart/catal ... cts_id=108

* Each text shown in the second link can be purchased separately and is listed somewhere in the "Books by Khenpo Rinpoches" section.


This looks quite helpful. Thanks Pema!

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:13 pm 
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I also think it is good idea to get others started in this study of Abhidharma.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:30 pm 
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Count me in too! Most of my Abhi... studies are in Theravadra Abhidhamma so... (I'll leave it up to everybodies imagination)

I reckon that since Huseng (Ven.?) started the ball rolling they may as well set out the track it is going to follow.

If I remember correctly Chap.3 was originally proposed?

Wanna give us a date and time to complete our reading by? The whole of Chap.3 or just a number of verses each week? How long will the study/discussion of each section be allowed to last? I think you mentioned a new thread each time? Will you start the new thread each week? Will you post a copy of the relevant section each week? Am I running out of questions?
:namaste:

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:31 pm 
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gregkavarnos wrote:
Count me in too! Most of my Abhi... studies are in Theravadra Abhidhamma so... (I'll leave it up to everybodies imagination)

I reckon that since Huseng (Ven.?) started the ball rolling they may as well set out the track it is going to follow.

If I remember correctly Chap.3 was originally proposed?

Wanna give us a date and time to complete our reading by? The whole of Chap.3 or just a number of verses each week? How long will the study/discussion of each section be allowed to last? I think you mentioned a new thread each time? Will you start the new thread each week? Will you post a copy of the relevant section each week? Am I running out of questions?
:namaste:


I am not a Venerable. :twothumbsup: Least not yet... :namaste:

Well, I have no plans at the moment and I don't think I'm entirely qualified to teach the text in any great detail.

It was a kind of shotgun idea I proposed. At any rate the files are there for download. :smile:

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 4:42 pm 
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Dear Huseng,

Well, if we call you a coordinator of a structured discussion instead of the teacher will that make you feel better and act as an impetus for you to "stop talking and start chalkin'" as my favorite pinball machine of the late 80's used to say (it was a pinball machine that thought it was a pool/billiards table)?
:namaste:
PS I promise I won't write poetry during this thread (he says as he crosses his virtual fingers behind his virtual back)

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