Can lamas choose a suitable yidam for you by divination?

Kaung
Posts: 104
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:04 am
Location: Yangon Burma

Can lamas choose a suitable yidam for you by divination?

Post by Kaung »

That's a itching question from the first time I've seen that in the letters between lama zopa and his students like this http://www.lamayeshe.com/?sect=article&id=343" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Probably Mo :shrug: ?If someone in this forum can do it then I would appreciate if you'd do it for me :smile: It also turns out it can determine the exact amount of ngondro practices to be done I have no plans of slacking tho :tongue:
DiamondSutra
Posts: 62
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2013 6:50 pm

Re: Can lamas choose a suitable yidam for you by divination?

Post by DiamondSutra »

Where do you live?
Kaung
Posts: 104
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:04 am
Location: Yangon Burma

Re: Can lamas choose a suitable yidam for you by divination?

Post by Kaung »

Burma
ngodrup
Posts: 746
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:58 pm

Re: Can lamas choose a suitable yidam for you by divination?

Post by ngodrup »

The correct amount of Ngondro to do is 100,000 per practice,
with the exception of Guru Yoga which is more. No need for me
to cast a Mo here, because the scriptural authority is solid.

Now, can a particular Lama do this, yes. Some are extraordinarily
gifted and can ascertain the Lamas and Yidams of your past lives--
that if your predecessor accomplished to any extent, would make
them especially significantly easier to accomplish in this time. I have
witnessed such divination.

Since you are referring to Lama Zopa, consider that his predecessor
was a cave-dwelling yogi who spent most of his life in retreat and
completed the practice of Northern Treasure practices as well as others.
There is a biography of the Lawudo Lama, you can read.
So this accomplishment is no surprise. He is by no means the only one.

His style though, is to prescribe practices that would take most people
several lifetimes. My teacher used to say: "If you don't get a mo, you
are free; if you get one, then you know what you have to do." Therefore,
if you do get a mo, get one from a Lama you know and trust, And be
very specific in your question, lest you find yourself living in a cave for
50 years. :) Maybe as a yes/no question like, "Should I adopt the practice
of Shri Heruka, or is Vajrasattva more suitable." Be prepared that it might
come out some other form like Vajrakilaya, Hayagyiva, Yamantaka or Tara
for that matter. But usually the question focuses the answer.
JKhedrup
Posts: 2328
Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 8:28 am

Re: Can lamas choose a suitable yidam for you by divination?

Post by JKhedrup »

Usually one feels a stronger connection to one particular deity, and this becomes one's yidam. Zopa Rinpoche will do a mo on request, as will some other lamas, but most do not

In terms of the gelug tradition, usually the first Anuttarayoga initiation people take is Yamantaka, as in Lama Tzongkhapa's presentation it is the preliminary as its special feature is to pacify obstacles.

I pray that a suitable Geshe visits your country or that you can travel to receive the empowerments.
emaho
Posts: 917
Joined: Sun May 06, 2012 8:33 pm

Re: Can lamas choose a suitable yidam for you by divination?

Post by emaho »

ngodrup wrote:The correct amount of Ngondro to do is 100,000 per practice,
with the exception of Guru Yoga which is more. No need for me
to cast a Mo here, because the scriptural authority is solid.
:smile:

I'm guessing the OP meant how many times to do the Ngondro.
"I struggled with some demons, They were middle class and tame..." L. Cohen
ngodrup
Posts: 746
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:58 pm

Re: Can lamas choose a suitable yidam for you by divination?

Post by ngodrup »

How many? At least once.
ngodrup
Posts: 746
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:58 pm

Re: Can lamas choose a suitable yidam for you by divination?

Post by ngodrup »

JKhedrup wrote:
In terms of the gelug tradition, usually the first Anuttarayoga initiation people take is Yamantaka, as in Lama Tzongkhapa's presentation it is the preliminary as its special feature is to pacify obstacles.
This is interesting because the same general principle is seen in the Kagyu and Nyingma.
Kagyupas recommend Mahakala to beginners (as a yidam) to remove obstacles.
Nyingmapas recommend the yidam Vajrakilaya to beginners to remove obstacles.
In both cases, one does not necessarily have to have completed ngondro to start
accumulating the recommended deity-- just promise to complete ngondro during this lifetime.
User avatar
conebeckham
Posts: 5712
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm
Location: Bay Area, CA, USA

Re: Can lamas choose a suitable yidam for you by divination?

Post by conebeckham »

ngodrup wrote:
JKhedrup wrote:
In terms of the gelug tradition, usually the first Anuttarayoga initiation people take is Yamantaka, as in Lama Tzongkhapa's presentation it is the preliminary as its special feature is to pacify obstacles.
This is interesting because the same general principle is seen in the Kagyu and Nyingma.
Kagyupas recommend Mahakala to beginners (as a yidam) to remove obstacles.
Nyingmapas recommend the yidam Vajrakilaya to beginners to remove obstacles.
In both cases, one does not necessarily have to have completed ngondro to start
accumulating the recommended deity-- just promise to complete ngondro during this lifetime.
Woah, pardner, hold on to that horse....

I know of no Kagyu lama who gives Mahakala as yidam practice to beginners.

As a protector, sure, there are Jenangs for various Mahakala forms--Bernakchen and Gonpo Chagdrupa especially....but these aren't "Yidam" practices. Mahakala, at this level, is a protector practice. One does not usually "self-generate" as Mahakala. Usually, there's SolKha--offerings and praises, torma offerings, etc. but not full Sadhana.

Most Kagyu lamas I know of will give Chenrezig, or Tara, or both, and maybe some other practices.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
ngodrup
Posts: 746
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 6:58 pm

Re: Can lamas choose a suitable yidam for you by divination?

Post by ngodrup »

ok, perhaps I misunderstand.

Cone, are you are saying then that the Mahakala jenangs are given
prior to full wang? And six arm Mahakala, when given, is not a
full sadhana but a solka? A Lama we both know, explicitly said
'Mahakala is recommended for beginners to remove obstacles.'
The text I'm looking at is clearly not a solka.
User avatar
conebeckham
Posts: 5712
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm
Location: Bay Area, CA, USA

Re: Can lamas choose a suitable yidam for you by divination?

Post by conebeckham »

Ngodrup, I assume you're talking about Six Arm Mahakala, and not the practice of Bernakchen, based on your comments, right?

Chagdrupa is indeed given to beginners, as a protector. But it's a Dun Kye--a "Front Generation" with mantra, and offerings, Kangwa, torma offering, requesting activity, etc. I wouldn't call that a "yidam practice." Certainly, for those practicing under the "Kalu Rinpoche" DagShang scheme, daily Chagdrupa for relative beginners is common. But Chenrezig and Tara would be appropriate yidams.

If we're talking about Bernakchen, well, that's a bit different. But still I wouldn't say it's "yidam" practice.
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
User avatar
Palzang Jangchub
Posts: 1008
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 10:19 pm
Contact:

Re: Can lamas choose a suitable yidam for you by divination?

Post by Palzang Jangchub »

Amitayus is traditionally accumulated before the start of ngondro in the Drikung Kagyu tradition, though I'm not sure if one needs the empowerment or if it's just acceptable to just do front generation and the mantra.

Gonpo MaNing --- the eunuch form of Mahakala --- is given to beginners in the Palyul Nyingma lineage, though only as an enlightened protector (i.e. front visualization only, and no dissolution so that he protects you constantly).

Achi Chökyi Drölma, being a yidam and enlightened protector all in one, holds a pretty unique place in the Drikung lineage. I know of some (including beginners) receiving the transmission being allowed to practice her sadhana without empowerment. Her empowerment does exist and is given, however, as Kyabjé Garchen Rinpoche gave it last year at Gar Drölma amongst the other ones.

Kaung, do you feel a connection to any particular deities? How about to the things certain deities preside over or help us perfect? (compassion, wisdom, activity, power, long-life, wealth, etc.)

Any practices you do or are drawn to which feature a particular yidam? As long as the connection isn't superficial, you might already have an inkling about who to practice without having to wait for a Mo divination. It's also key to remember that all deities are of the same essence, having emanated from the Dharmakaya, the all-pervasive source of Buddha mind, so practicing one accomplishes them all!
Image

"The Sutras, Tantras, and Philosophical Scriptures are great in number. However life is short, and intelligence is limited, so it's hard to cover them completely. You may know a lot, but if you don't put it into practice, it's like dying of thirst on the shore of a great lake. Likewise, a common corpse is found in the bed of a great scholar." ~ Karma Chagme

དྲིན་ཆེན་རྩ་བའི་བླ་མ་སྐྱབས་རྗེ་མགར་ཆེན་ཁྲི་སྤྲུལ་རིན་པོ་ཆེ་ཁྱེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ།།
རྗེ་བཙུན་བླ་མ་མཁས་གྲུབ་ཀརྨ་ཆགས་མེད་མཁྱེན་ནོ། ཀརྨ་པ་མཁྱེན་ནོཿ
JKhedrup
Posts: 2328
Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 8:28 am

Re: Can lamas choose a suitable yidam for you by divination?

Post by JKhedrup »

Kaung another important thing to do is make prayers and requests to meet a qualified teacher who can guide you and initiate you into the various practices.

Burma is opening up more and more
It would be great to see a lama visit the country.
Kaung
Posts: 104
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:04 am
Location: Yangon Burma

Re: Can lamas choose a suitable yidam for you by divination?

Post by Kaung »

Karma Jinpa wrote:Amitayus is traditionally accumulated before the start of ngondro in the Drikung Kagyu tradition, though I'm not sure if one needs the empowerment or if it's just acceptable to just do front generation and the mantra.

Gonpo MaNing --- the eunuch form of Mahakala --- is given to beginners in the Palyul Nyingma lineage, though only as an enlightened protector (i.e. front visualization only, and no dissolution so that he protects you constantly).

Achi Chökyi Drölma, being a yidam and enlightened protector all in one, holds a pretty unique place in the Drikung lineage. I know of some (including beginners) receiving the transmission being allowed to practice her sadhana without empowerment. Her empowerment does exist and is given, however, as Kyabjé Garchen Rinpoche gave it last year at Gar Drölma amongst the other ones.

Kaung, do you feel a connection to any particular deities? How about to the things certain deities preside over or help us perfect? (compassion, wisdom, activity, power, long-life, wealth, etc.)

Any practices you do or are drawn to which feature a particular yidam? As long as the connection isn't superficial, you might already have an inkling about who to practice without having to wait for a Mo divination. It's also key to remember that all deities are of the same essence, having emanated from the Dharmakaya, the all-pervasive source of Buddha mind, so practicing one accomplishes them all!
Actually I feel really drawn to Yamantaka Heruka(esp 5 deity) and cittamani tara in context of HYT deities Amitayus green tara and dzambhala are my favourites in lower tantras
Kaung
Posts: 104
Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 4:04 am
Location: Yangon Burma

Re: Can lamas choose a suitable yidam for you by divination?

Post by Kaung »

JKhedrup wrote:Kaung another important thing to do is make prayers and requests to meet a qualified teacher who can guide you and initiate you into the various practices.

Burma is opening up more and more
It would be great to see a lama visit the country.
I will!It's my dream that even if a single lama visits here during my lifetime and builds a center(the latter is pretty impossible with this" racist buddhism" and many anti-mahayanist monks conditions will be worse with vajrayana) Anyways I have plans of moving to Singapore in two years So I've gotta work hard :jumping: Please pray for success in my work within two years because it's very crucial in decision of moving or not moving to Singapore For now I wish to take Dzambhala as my main practice
JKhedrup
Posts: 2328
Joined: Wed May 30, 2012 8:28 am

Re: Can lamas choose a suitable yidam for you by divination?

Post by JKhedrup »

I will Kaung.

May all obstacles to receiving the teachings you wish be solved very soon. I am sure many others hete are also sending their best wishes.
User avatar
lelopa
Posts: 909
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:03 pm

Re: Can lamas choose a suitable yidam for you by divination?

Post by lelopa »

conebeckham wrote:..........................

I know of no Kagyu lama who gives Mahakala as yidam practice to beginners.

.....................
Lama Tenga Rinpoche did so in the beginning of the 80's....
Lost In Transmission
User avatar
conebeckham
Posts: 5712
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:49 pm
Location: Bay Area, CA, USA

Re: Can lamas choose a suitable yidam for you by divination?

Post by conebeckham »

lelopa wrote:
conebeckham wrote:..........................

I know of no Kagyu lama who gives Mahakala as yidam practice to beginners.

.....................
Lama Tenga Rinpoche did so in the beginning of the 80's....
The important words are "yidam practice."

I'm interested, can you tell me more? Chagdrupa? Bernakchen? Are you sure it wasn't just initial empowerments for protector practice--solkhas, forma offerings, etc.?
དམ་པའི་དོན་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ཆེ་བ་དང་།
རྟོག་གེའི་ཡུལ་མིན་བླ་མའི་བྱིན་རླབས་དང་།
སྐལ་ལྡན་ལས་འཕྲོ་ཅན་གྱིས་རྟོགས་པ་སྟེ།
དེ་ནི་ཤེས་རབ་ལ་ནི་ལོ་རྟོག་སེལ།།


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")
User avatar
Kilaya.
Posts: 114
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:51 pm
Location: Budapest, Hungary

Re: Can lamas choose a suitable yidam for you by divination?

Post by Kilaya. »

I'm not sure, but I think the long Bernakchen sadhana does involve transformation into Mahakala, doesn't it?
Look at those charlatans, madly engaged
in fervent argument.
- Milarepa
User avatar
lelopa
Posts: 909
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:03 pm

Re: Can lamas choose a suitable yidam for you by divination?

Post by lelopa »

conebeckham wrote:
lelopa wrote:
conebeckham wrote:..........................

I know of no Kagyu lama who gives Mahakala as yidam practice to beginners.

.....................
Lama Tenga Rinpoche did so in the beginning of the 80's....
The important words are "yidam practice."
ok, the important words are "lelopa answered here" a man who knows what that is :mrgreen:

I'm interested, can you tell me more?
ok- but i do not want to get too much into details
Chagdrupa? Bernakchen?
Bernagchen
Are you sure it wasn't just initial empowerments for protector practice--solkhas, forma offerings, etc.?
it was a very short wang but the visualisations was exactly like a yidam-wang -
the practice-explanation was self-visualisation & it includes torma-offering, etc. at the end of the main-practice and a samaya for daily recitation!
So i can't see the difference between this and some yidam-practices....
Lost In Transmission
Post Reply

Return to “Gelug”