Contemplating the consequences of split brain theory

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Re: Reaching the unconscious mind

Postby oushi » Mon May 19, 2014 9:09 pm

To be able to say that two theories are unrelated you need to know both.
"Each hemisphere is indeed a conscious system in its own right, perceiving, thinking, remembering, reasoning, willing, and emoting, all at a characteristically human level"
Contemplate the consequences.
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Re: Reaching the unconscious mind

Postby Sherab Dorje » Mon May 19, 2014 9:31 pm

oushi wrote:To be able to say that two theories are unrelated you need to know both.
"Each hemisphere is indeed a conscious system in its own right, perceiving, thinking, remembering, reasoning, willing, and emoting, all at a characteristically human level"
Contemplate the consequences.
Source the quote please.
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
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Re: Reaching the unconscious mind

Postby oushi » Mon May 19, 2014 9:44 pm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Wolcott_Sperry
Yes... he received a Nobel Prize for his fanciful, childish and ridiculous theories, as you called them.
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Re: Reaching the unconscious mind

Postby Sherab Dorje » Mon May 19, 2014 9:54 pm

oushi wrote:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Wolcott_Sperry
Yes... he received a Nobel Prize for his fanciful, childish and ridiculous theories, as you called them.
And Henry Kissinger has won the Nobel Peace Prize even though "the US was still carpet-bombing Cambodia the year he picked up the prize. He's also been accused of war crimes, thanks, in part, to America's provision of arms and support to the South American dictators who carried out Operation Condor, an anti-communist campaign of repression and terror that claimed the lives of thousands of people." http://www.theweek.co.uk/world-news/555 ... al-winners

So it doesn't say all that much to me.

Back to the point: split brain theory has to do with brain trauma while Jung/Freuds theory has to do with the functioning of an otherwise healthy mind. The two are not related in the slightest. Please stop trying to pull the thread off-topic.
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Reaching the unconscious mind

Postby oushi » Mon May 19, 2014 10:28 pm

Sherab Dorje wrote:And Henry Kissinger has won the Nobel Peace Prize even though "the US was still carpet-bombing Cambodia the year he picked up the prize. He's also been accused of war crimes, thanks, in part, to America's provision of arms and support to the South American dictators who carried out Operation Condor, an anti-communist campaign of repression and terror that claimed the lives of thousands of people." http://www.theweek.co.uk/world-news/555" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... al-winners

So it doesn't say all that much to me.

Sperry's awards:
1931–1935 Amos C. Miller Scholarship, Oberlin College 1941–1942 National Research Council Fellowship 1954 Distinguished Alumni Citation, Oberlin College 1960 Elected National Academy of Sciences 1963 Elected American Academy of Arts and Sciences 1969 Howard Crosby Warren Medal, Society of Experimental Psychologists 1971 Distinguished Scientific Contribution Award, American Psychological Association 1972 Co-recipient, William Thomson Wakeman Research Award, National Paraplegia Foundation 1972 California Scientist of the Year Award 1972 Honorary Doctor of Science Degree, Cambridge University 1973 Passano Award in Medical Science 1974 Elected Honorary Member American Neurological Association 1974 Elected American Philosophical Society 1975 Co-recipient Claude Bernard Science Journalism Award 1976 Karl Lashley Award of American Philosophical Society 1976 Elected Foreign Member of Royal Society 1976 Honorary Doctor of Science Degree, University of Chicago 1978 Elected Member Pontifical Academy of Sciences 1979 Honorary Doctor of Science, Kenyon CollegeFor 1979 Wolf Prize in Medicine 1979 Ralph Gerard Award of the Society for Neuroscience 1979 International Visual Literacy Association Special Award for 1979 1979 Albert Lasker Medical Research Award 1980 Honorary Doctor of Science Degree, Rockefeller University 1980 American Academy of Achievement Golden Plate Award 1981 Shared the Nobel Prize in Medicine/Physiology 1982 Honorary Doctor of Science Degree, Oberlin College 1982 California State Psychological Association Award for Distinguished Scientific Achievements in Psychology 1986 Realia Award of the Institute for Advanced Philosophic Research 1987 Mentor Society Award 1988 Elected Foreign Member USSR Academy of Sciences 1989 National Medal of Science 1990 Elected William James Fellow, American Psychological Society 1991 Lifetime Achievement Award, American Psychological Association.
If that doesn't mean much to you, then I don't know what does.
Sherab Dorje wrote:Back to the point: split brain theory has to do with brain trauma while Jung/Freuds theory has to do with the functioning of an otherwise healthy mind. The two are not related in the slightest. Please stop trying to pull the thread off-topic.

Your bringing Kissinger into discussion is the biggest off-topic we have here, don't you agree?

Anyway, I brought split-brain into the topic to show that there are two active and cooperating minds, which often conflicting with each other. There are many areas where one actively suppress the other. Great example is language, where right hemisphere is suppressed and unable to master this ability. In does not understand the conversations we have, and it never understood even one sentence of our thinking. It will try to understand the situation, create it's own emotional interpretations, and react on that basis. Unconscious is the other conscious.
Those who will contemplate the consequences can benefit, but those who are interesting only in self-promotion, will always find a way to criticize.
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Re: Contemplating the consequences of split brain theory

Postby Simon E. » Tue May 20, 2014 8:55 am

:smile: Not going there Greg...after all I spend part of my working week engaged with the issues involved..which apparently makes me ineligable to comment because of my pride.
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Re: Contemplating the consequences of split brain theory

Postby Qianxi » Tue May 20, 2014 12:37 pm

Some similar issues were brought up during the Buddhism and Modern Psychology course on the coursera website https://www.coursera.org/course/psychbuddhism" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

In the course Robert Wright basically tried to relate a modular theory of the mind to Buddhist ideas of non self, and he mentions the split brain experiments.
The modular theory of the mind as he explains it is that there is no single commander module in the brain, organising all the others. Rather, there are various networks competing for attention, and the linguistic centres of the brain are basically charged with rationalising it all after the fact, in order to present yourself as a reliable, consistent member of the community.

Simon E. wrote:I suspect that you mean 'split brain ' which a crude term for various postulated conditions that come under the general heading of Multiple Personality Disorders..

Oh, I haven't watched OP's video, but the split brain experiments referenced in Robert Wright's Buddhism and Modern Psychology course were cases where the link between the two hemispheres had been physically cut. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-brain" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Contemplating the consequences of split brain theory

Postby Simon E. » Tue May 20, 2014 1:07 pm

Yes I think we eventually unpicked that from Oushi's confused conflation Quanxi.

Not helped by the use of 'slit ' when what was meant was 'split '...
And the sudden introduction ( in the original thread ) of the subject in a discussion which was actually at that point about M.P.S. in subjects with no obvious organic lesions.

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Re: Contemplating the consequences of split brain theory

Postby oushi » Tue May 20, 2014 1:46 pm

Qianxi wrote:Oh, I haven't watched OP's video, but the split brain experiments referenced in Robert Wright's Buddhism and Modern Psychology course were cases where the link between the two hemispheres had been physically cut

I encourage you to watch it. It's only 2 minutes long, but a good introduction to the subject.

Simon E. wrote:Not helped by the use of 'slit ' when what was meant was 'split '...

Finding a typo seems to be your only input into this discussion. :shrug:
Oh, you also classified Noble Prize winning subject as "pop psychology of journalists", but that doesn't count as an input.
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Re: Contemplating the consequences of split brain theory

Postby Lindama » Tue May 20, 2014 8:27 pm

ok, stripping off the psychology, pathology and physiology, I can relate to the conflicts that exist within, sometimes unseen. Isn't that the point of this discussion. The split brain thing as well as MPS are the extremes which give us an insight into ourselves who don't suffer to that extent. It seems more like a model to help us move into an inquiry of ourselves. Long ago, when I was in complete chaos, retooling myself, I sank deeply into two books: The Psychotic Core and The Denial of Death. It ignited a deep resonance which was a salve for the anxiety and fear. I doubt I could touch it without a little help from those books. I think we all carry these energies, it's just that we are free of the extreme pathology. How else could I reach out to one who is suffering.

As to language, I have been in settings where I actually could not comprehend language amidst fear... there was no harm or physical danger involved. I was aware of just looking, deaf and dumb, as if 18 mos old. It happens... I have a mysterious ability to come through these events with a bit of insight.... it's nothing that I did... back in the day.
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Re: Contemplating the consequences of split brain theory

Postby Sherab Dorje » Tue May 20, 2014 9:01 pm

In the opening post we were asked to "Contemplate the consequences."

So, oushi, what do you believe the consequences are?

(Just to put the thread back on topic again).
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Contemplating the consequences of split brain theory

Postby oushi » Tue May 20, 2014 9:15 pm

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Re: Contemplating the consequences of split brain theory

Postby Sherab Dorje » Tue May 20, 2014 10:38 pm

"Those who will contemplate the consequences can benefit..."

Okay. Yes. Care to tell us how?
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Contemplating the consequences of split brain theory

Postby oushi » Wed May 21, 2014 6:08 am

Sherab Dorje wrote:Okay. Yes. Care to tell us how?

As soon as I find someone interested, for whom this topic is not ridiculous. :|
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Re: Contemplating the consequences of split brain theory

Postby dharmagoat » Wed May 21, 2014 6:15 am

oushi wrote:As soon as I find someone interested, for whom this topic is not ridiculous. :|

I am waiting for Sherab Dorje and Simon E. to stop behaving like schoolboys...
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Re: Contemplating the consequences of split brain theory

Postby Nemo » Wed May 21, 2014 8:20 am

Sorry but MPS is fake. I even knew a "sufferer" in Toronto who was turned into a case study. He just wanted to get disability. Some shrinks are meidiocre and easily fooled. Luckily of late they have been trying to be less gullible and rely on actual evidence.
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Re: Contemplating the consequences of split brain theory

Postby oushi » Wed May 21, 2014 8:25 am

Nemo wrote:He just wanted to get disability.

How is that related to the topic? If I try to fake schizophrenia, will it make schizophrenia fake?
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Re: Contemplating the consequences of split brain theory

Postby Simon E. » Wed May 21, 2014 8:53 am

dharmagoat wrote:
oushi wrote:As soon as I find someone interested, for whom this topic is not ridiculous. :|

I am waiting for Sherab Dorje and Simon E. to stop behaving like schoolboys...


Apart from saying that the vast majority of psychiatrists in the UK would agree with Nemo on the subject of MPS I have nothing to add.
So feel free.

:popcorn:


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Re: Contemplating the consequences of split brain theory

Postby Sherab Dorje » Wed May 21, 2014 9:21 am

dharmagoat wrote:
oushi wrote:As soon as I find someone interested, for whom this topic is not ridiculous. :|

I am waiting for Sherab Dorje and Simon E. to stop behaving like schoolboys...
??? I specifically split off this topic from the original one to give oushi the opportunity to express his opinion (without dragging the previous thread off-topic) and ask him in a friendly manner to explain his view, and I am acting like a school boy :shrug: ??? Anyway. Does anybody have anything intelligent to say or are we just going to be trotting out personal attacks all day (something which I personally consider "behaving like a schoolboy").
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Contemplating the consequences of split brain theory

Postby oushi » Wed May 21, 2014 9:43 am

Intention to make it a separate topic was totally yours. I only introduced this theory to extend the view on the subject discussed, as another puzzle that may play a role in "unconscious" phenomena. I did not expect any replies, simply because this subject is not well known to forum members. It was rejected at face value, which triggered a series of posts aiming to rehabilitate it from negative (unjust) reviews it received. I repeated the suggestion to contemplate it twice, not by accident, and I will repeat it once more. Contemplate it, and return with your conclusions if those are worth sharing.
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