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How are the views of Buddhadasa Bhikkhu regarded? - Page 3 - Dhamma Wheel

How are the views of Buddhadasa Bhikkhu regarded?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Re: How are the views of Buddhadasa Bhikkhu regarded?

Postby jcsuperstar » Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:12 am

i think once he became the arahant he didnt create new kamma, same as buddha, but same as buddha he still had to feel the effects of it, headaches like the buddha, getting stoned like angullimala...
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the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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Re: How are the views of Buddhadasa Bhikkhu regarded?

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:24 am


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Re: How are the views of Buddhadasa Bhikkhu regarded?

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:25 am


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Re: How are the views of Buddhadasa Bhikkhu regarded?

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:27 am


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Re: How are the views of Buddhadasa Bhikkhu regarded?

Postby mikenz66 » Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:29 am

Thanks,

Members might also check out Robert's critique of Buddhadsa's critique of Buddhagosa...
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=311

Mike

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Re: How are the views of Buddhadasa Bhikkhu regarded?

Postby jcsuperstar » Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:32 am

i feel like youre saying what i'm saying

im saying one doesnt have to eat up all the kamma, that one can become an arahant and that act negates the 3 life model or at least renders it useless

i guess if youre saying the 3 life model is true for all but arahants, then maybe, i cant argue for or against that, and i think buddhadasa's model would have to conciede as well as his argument is the same as mine
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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Re: How are the views of Buddhadasa Bhikkhu regarded?

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:48 am


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Re: How are the views of Buddhadasa Bhikkhu regarded?

Postby clw_uk » Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:58 am

Last edited by clw_uk on Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How are the views of Buddhadasa Bhikkhu regarded?

Postby jcsuperstar » Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:59 am

so i guess we're in agreement :spy:

maybe my and buddhadasa's understanding of the 3 life model is wrong. but one would have to wonder why he would make an issue of it, i doubt he'd have just been some jerk making a strawman argument. maybe this is the average thai understanding of the 3LM? i mean most thai buddhists i know believe in a soul and a hindu type karma, and practice is not about nibbana but a better rebirth and after all this was buddhadasa's audience. if you read the book he clearly isnt writing a book to disprove buddhaghosa, that isnt the point of the book, the point of the book is about understanding and breaking the links in DO.
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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Re: How are the views of Buddhadasa Bhikkhu regarded?

Postby jcsuperstar » Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:00 am

สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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Re: How are the views of Buddhadasa Bhikkhu regarded?

Postby tiltbillings » Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:04 am


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Re: How are the views of Buddhadasa Bhikkhu regarded?

Postby jcsuperstar » Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:05 am

สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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Re: How are the views of Buddhadasa Bhikkhu regarded?

Postby Macavity » Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:38 am


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Re: How are the views of Buddhadasa Bhikkhu regarded?

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Jul 10, 2009 9:49 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: How are the views of Buddhadasa Bhikkhu regarded?

Postby kc2dpt » Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:31 pm

- Peter


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Re: How are the views of Buddhadasa Bhikkhu regarded?

Postby clw_uk » Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:50 pm

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Re: How are the views of Buddhadasa Bhikkhu regarded?

Postby zerotime » Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:01 pm

"I think he considered the "anatta vs atta" issue to be far more significant than talk of multiple lives."

that's the real point.

"I" exist because an ignorance of patticasamuppada. "I" will die due the same ignorance. But finally there is not an "I" able to born and die. Then, What's the thing able to be born and die?

We can say: "there is 4 o'clock". Why?. Because before was "3 o'clock" and we infere how later it will be 5 o'clock. However, the hour in itself didn't exist. Hours appears like conditioned things. Because nobody is able to perceive one hour. We need mental images and third references to claim the existence of time because the time cannot be claimed without references.

My past live and my future live only exists while I'm conceiving an actual present thing called "my live". But in fact there is not "me" or "my". Without references finally there is only no-time, the actual present and the live to be lived.

Although to make useful Buddhaghosa, there is also the case in where somebody say "3 and 5 o'clock didn't exist, it only exist the 4 o'clock and this is the only existent hour. There are not more hours". I think this is a worse non-sense. Because if we admit the 4 o'clock for sure we need 3 and 5. Here it can be an utility for the 3 times schema. Sometimes it can work like a provisional station to disentangle the ignorance of the only existence of the 4 o'clock.

But when we need to talk in Dhamma terms and regarding the final meanings in dhamma, then one start knowing that there is not "me" and "my". Therefore there is not rebirth of the 3,4,5 but there is only an explanation of the arising of the time. This arising cannot be explained in primordial substances called hours, seconds, miliseconds or any other measure. The explanation is about how the time is created. If we create any substance maked of time (hours, minutes...) to explain how the time arises, then we fall in eternalism. At least I believe it is the sense in Buddhadhasa when rejecting rebirth in those terms.

In the conventional side, probably Buddhadhasa claimed rebirth by the same logic he used in the distinction of dhamma language. But sure in Thailand his efforts to teach patticasmuppada were more successful avoiding this point.


best

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Re: How are the views of Buddhadasa Bhikkhu regarded?

Postby jcsuperstar » Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:05 pm

สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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Re: How are the views of Buddhadasa Bhikkhu regarded?

Postby clw_uk » Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:15 pm

If you find it or know where i can listen to it let me know :)


Also is that book just called "Buddhadasa"?


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Re: How are the views of Buddhadasa Bhikkhu regarded?

Postby jcsuperstar » Fri Jul 10, 2009 7:22 pm

yeah. its a pretty good book.
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat


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