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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 6:34 pm 
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I said consciously enter sleep paralysis.

All the instructions are the same (Dudjom Rinpoche's restricted, Dilgo Khyentse's collected works volume III, Dzogchen Ponlop's mind beyond death, ChNN's dream yoga second edition etc.)

You lie on your right side in the lion's posture and try to consciously enter deep sleep.

That is clear light.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 7:37 pm 
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I have a friend who experiences sleep paralysis on occasion....it is frightening. The sense of self is involved. There is a feeling of "weight," and of helplessness. These are not aspects of clear light practice. Clear light, as a thing, is a certain sort of "consciousness" or "bare sentient experience."

Clear Light, as a practice, does relate to the winds and channels, and techniques using these are certainly involved.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:38 pm 
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I'm going by the teachings, nothing else.

Denying that clear light has to do with deep sleep contradicts every book on the subject and Malcolm.

I can consciously enter deep sleep via the lion's posture after about 6 months of trying. The mind is like a serene lake.


Last edited by ConradTree on Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:49 pm 
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ConradTree wrote:
I'm going by the teachings, nothing else.

Denying that clear light has to do with deep sleep contradicts every book on the subject and Malcolm.

I can consciously enter deep sleep via the lion's posture after about 6 months of trying. The mind is like a serene lake.


Clear light is a state of wisdom; deep sleep is a state of ignorance. When you are sleeping in clear light, that is because you were able to recognize it while falling asleep. Only great practitioners can do this. We can just try.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:52 pm 
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Malcolm wrote:
Clear light is a state of wisdom; deep sleep is a state of ignorance. When you are sleeping in clear light, that is because you were able to recognize it while falling asleep. Only great practitioners can do this. We can just try.


So you do agree its consciously entering the sleep state from say the lions posture?


Last edited by ConradTree on Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:59 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:54 pm 
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ConradTree wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
Clear light is a state of wisdom; deep sleep is a state of ignorance. When you are sleeping in clear light, that is because you were able to recognize it while falling asleep. Only great practitioners can do this. We can just try.


So you do agree its consciously entering the deep sleep state from say the lions posture?


It does not depend on posture. It is most easily accomplished by going either guru yoga or meditating one's yidam at the heart while falling asleep without distraction.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 8:56 pm 
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So you do agree its about consciously entering the sleep state?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:00 pm 
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ConradTree wrote:
So you do agree its about consciously entering the sleep state?


Its about falling asleep in a state of recognition of the nature of the mind while the winds withdraw into the heart cakra.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:13 pm 
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Malcolm wrote:
Its about falling asleep in a state of recognition of the nature of the mind while the winds withdraw into the heart cakra.


Malcolm wrote:
while falling asleep without distraction.


So you do agree its about falling asleep with some kind of awareness?

Because that's what I was trying to convey.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:38 pm 
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ConradTree wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
Its about falling asleep in a state of recognition of the nature of the mind while the winds withdraw into the heart cakra.


Malcolm wrote:
while falling asleep without distraction.


So you do agree its about falling asleep with some kind of awareness?

Because that's what I was trying to convey.


It is "awareness" of a very specific kind.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:44 pm 
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Malcolm wrote:
It is "awareness" of a very specific kind.


Would you even be able to be aware while falling asleep, if you did not have that specific kind of awareness?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 9:52 pm 
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ConradTree wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
It is "awareness" of a very specific kind.


Would you even be able to be aware while falling asleep, if you did not have that specific kind of awareness?


For example, lucid dreaming and so on, are all techniques of being aware while falling asleep; but they will not necessarily lead to resting in the state of luminosity.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:01 pm 
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Malcolm wrote:
For example, lucid dreaming and so on, are all techniques of being aware while falling asleep; but they will not necessarily lead to resting in the state of luminosity.


I don't follow that New Age stuff, so I wouldn't know.

So you do agree that clear light is about falling asleep with trekcho?

Because that's what I was trying to convey.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:03 pm 
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ConradTree wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
For example, lucid dreaming and so on, are all techniques of being aware while falling asleep; but they will not necessarily lead to resting in the state of luminosity.


I don't follow that New Age stuff, so I wouldn't know.

But you do agree that clear light is about falling asleep with trekcho?

Because that's what I was trying to convey.


It depends on whether you are emphasizing the emptiness aspect or the clarity aspect.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:13 pm 
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Malcolm wrote:
It depends on whether you are emphasizing the emptiness aspect or the clarity aspect.


I emphasize relaxing in one's knowledge, having definitively recognized ma bcos shes pa skad cig ma.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:22 pm 
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ConradTree wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
It depends on whether you are emphasizing the emptiness aspect or the clarity aspect.


I emphasize relaxing in the state of knowledge, having definitively recognized ma bcos shes pa skad cig ma.


Well, the experience of clear light during sleep manifests differently depending on whether you are have developed the visions. But you should really hear this from a qualified teacher.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:28 pm 
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Malcolm wrote:
Well, the experience of clear light during sleep manifests differently depending on whether you are have developed the visions.


Yes I brought this up in the other thread. Why does this occur?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:29 pm 
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ConradTree wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
Well, the experience of clear light during sleep manifests differently depending on whether you are have developed the visions.


Yes I brought this up in the other thread. Why does this occur?


Because the visions are part of clear light.

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How can you not practice the highest Dharma
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:36 pm 
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Malcolm wrote:
Because the visions are part of clear light.


Yes, but I'm curious why our sleep yoga's experience would be different than KDL's sleep yoga experience?

It must have something to do with channels and stuff.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:39 pm 
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ConradTree wrote:
Malcolm wrote:
Because the visions are part of clear light.


Yes, but I'm curious why our sleep yoga's experience would be different than KDL's sleep yoga experience?

It must have something to do with channels and stuff.


It might have to do with the fact that he did a seven year retreat on thogal.

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How can you not practice the highest Dharma
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