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False emotions and Vocal acrobatics - Dhamma Wheel

False emotions and Vocal acrobatics

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
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retrofuturist
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False emotions and Vocal acrobatics

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:21 am

Greetings,

I was talking with a friend last week about "vocal gymnastics" (of the ilk of Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston, but even opera singers too) and I told him that whilst I agree it's a certain rare talent (I know I couldn't do it), it wasn't something I personally gained enjoyment from. We had a talk about the voice as a musical instrument, and I was prompted to look further into why it did not appeal to me.

One reason that came to me, which I'd never really thought about before was that it is expressing "false emotion". A significant percentage of songs that get recorded are about love, many of those about very real and personal experiences... but what happens when that love is gone, or the way you feel about something evolves and changes? If the highly emotive lyrics which seemed appropriate at the time are no longer relevant, because you've fallen out of love, is it appropriate to keep singing them? And if those vocal acrobatics were intended to convey that true emotion, is it sincere to keep singing them in the same way as you did before? And if you sing them the same way as they did before, did they ever really represent true emotion?

Some singers or musicians stop playing songs live at a certain point in their career because they no longer feel it valid to be singing that song any more. Such examples are rare and hard to come by, but I find I have more respect for the integrity behind these choices, than to go on singing these songs, performing the vocal acrobatics, and go on "entertaining" others with words and tones that are now so shallow and false.

What are your thoughts on emotions and vocal acrobatics in the name of entertainment?

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: False emotions and Vocal acrobatics

Postby Ben » Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:29 am

Hi Retro

Shallow and false according to who?
I mean, the singer sings about his or her experience in the same way that he or she sings to the experience of the listener.

And for the record, I consider all emotion as shallow and false (sankhara), just an interplay of vedanas, cittas and dhammas.
Metta

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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Re: False emotions and Vocal acrobatics

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:37 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: False emotions and Vocal acrobatics

Postby Ben » Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:50 am

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

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Re: False emotions and Vocal acrobatics

Postby Individual » Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:07 am

I don't think the nature of the artist necessarily is relevant to the nature of music, because music is not always created mechanically by the artist. Instead, music is often created through the artist, in a magical, spontaneous way that cannot be explained. Even when songs are written, the artist need not necessarily feel the emotion carried by the piece, before and after the song. But, like a good actor, during the song's authorship and performance, they summon the spirit of that performance, for lack of a better word, which is what allows them to make music. And when people listen to music, it is only from similar experiences or the summoning of that same spirit that the feeling can be felt... So, instead of analyzing it, you simply let the music carry you.

So, even if a song is an instrumental, and we don't know who wrote it or why, simply listening to a piece of music can trigger particular emotions.

What you call "false emotions," and "vocal acrobatics," I would call a beautiful memory, a mystical echo from the past, or a kind of audible magic that takes you to a different place and time.

What's your opinion of any of these songs, Retro? Most of them are instrumental and those which have lyrics aren't in English... in fact, they use a chorus (do you expect all the people in the chorus to have the same emotion and past experiences? :lol:) And yet these timeless melodies evoke profound emotion.

Carmina Burana by Carl Orff


1812 Overture (part 1) by Tchaikovsky


Fur Elise by Beethoven


Ave Maria by Franz Schubert


Waltz #2 by Dmitri Shostakovich


Metamorphosis by Philip Glass
The best things in life aren't things.


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Re: False emotions and Vocal acrobatics

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:19 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: False emotions and Vocal acrobatics

Postby appicchato » Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:28 am


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Re: False emotions and Vocal acrobatics

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:44 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Re: False emotions and Vocal acrobatics

Postby genkaku » Sun Jul 05, 2009 3:01 am

Perhaps, as with Buddhist texts or words, the important part is not so much what is expressed as what is evoked. For some, perhaps, a particular piece of music can be a real spine-tingler while the same piece of music can feel phony-baloney to another. Is it an inspiration or just insidious crappola? You tell me.
Smile just one smile




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Re: False emotions and Vocal acrobatics

Postby mikenz66 » Sun Jul 05, 2009 5:09 am


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Re: False emotions and Vocal acrobatics

Postby Individual » Sun Jul 05, 2009 5:47 am

The best things in life aren't things.


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Re: False emotions and Vocal acrobatics

Postby christopher::: » Sun Jul 05, 2009 7:57 am

Baby Blue! Amazing tune.



I'm not a big Mariah Carey fan, but there's a recording of her singing "Hero" live on television 10 days after September 11th that is very moving. She seems to be aware of a greater meaning to her song at that moment in history. I've never seen or heard her sing it elsewhere, with the same depth of feeling...



Another "pop" vocal performance that for some reason i find moving, Leona Lewis doing Summertime. I have no idea what the song means for her in this performance but i just love the song and find her to be incredibly sexy, lol...



Speaking of sexy, the women who've assisted with Pink Floyd's Great Gig in the Sky over the years are, like, wow.....



Now, that's some beautiful gymnastics...!

:smile:
"As Buddhists, we should aim to develop relationships that are not predominated by grasping and clinging. Our relationships should be characterised by the brahmaviharas of metta (loving kindness), mudita (sympathetic joy), karuna (compassion), and upekkha (equanimity)."
~post by Ben, Jul 02, 2009

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Re: False emotions and Vocal acrobatics

Postby pink_trike » Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:12 am

Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

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Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

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Re: False emotions and Vocal acrobatics

Postby mikenz66 » Sun Jul 05, 2009 8:19 am


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Re: False emotions and Vocal acrobatics

Postby Annapurna » Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:44 am

http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

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Re: False emotions and Vocal acrobatics

Postby pink_trike » Sun Jul 05, 2009 10:07 am

Vision is Mind
Mind is Empty
Emptiness is Clear Light
Clear Light is Union
Union is Great Bliss

- Dawa Gyaltsen

---

Disclaimer: I'm a non-religious practitioner of Theravada, Mahayana/Vajrayana, and Tibetan Bon Dzogchen mind-training.

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Re: False emotions and Vocal acrobatics

Postby Annapurna » Sun Jul 05, 2009 10:45 am

Thank you :anjali:
http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

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Re: False emotions and Vocal acrobatics

Postby jcsuperstar » Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:05 am

i spent most of my late teens and part of my 20s in bands had cds and records, played concerts , toured with bands, saw many friends get famous, get almost famous fail, kill themselves etc. the 90s were a great/interesting time for me. i also wrote for underground music zines so i was flooded with gazillions of cds and records to review (basically spoiled me so much that to this day i still cant pay for music)

there is something that some artists have, something "authentic" that some people are able to pick out while others simply can not. there is a difference between having talent and inspiration

talent is severly overrated
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the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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retrofuturist
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Re: False emotions and Vocal acrobatics

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:33 pm

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Journey
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Re: False emotions and Vocal acrobatics

Postby Journey » Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:53 pm



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