Intention

Discussion of meditation in the Mahayana and Vajrayana traditions.

Intention

Postby Gwenn Dana » Tue Apr 01, 2014 3:52 pm

Intention is like blowing a flute.
Your life energy flows through the flute, effortless.
You do not have to do anything.
By concentration you decide which holes are blocked,
and which action thus resonates within you.
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Re: Intention

Postby Sherab Dorje » Tue Apr 01, 2014 3:55 pm

Intention is like deciding "why" you will blow the flute.
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Intention

Postby Gwenn Dana » Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:05 pm

Then you'd still have to make the effort to blow it.
And how should an intention be detached from its action?
It needs no decision why.
Any why-perspective is retrospective.
The sound has long gone.
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Re: Intention

Postby Sherab Dorje » Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:31 pm

Intention (or motivation) is the first of the four conditions that influence the ripening of karma (the other three being: the action itself, the extent of the action and the feeling that arises in ones mind in regards to the action).

I would also recommend you go read some Abhidhamma or Abhidharma to understand the role of intention in mental processes (from a Buddhist angle).
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Intention

Postby Gwenn Dana » Tue Apr 01, 2014 4:55 pm

My intention of playing pool was just given birth.
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Re: Intention

Postby zsc » Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:03 pm

Sherab Dorje wrote:Intention (or motivation) is the first of the four conditions that influence the ripening of karma (the other three being: the action itself, the extent of the action and the feeling that arises in ones mind in regards to the action).

I would also recommend you go read some Abhidhamma or Abhidharma to understand the role of intention in mental processes (from a Buddhist angle).


If I'm not mistaken, Gwenn Dana is a practicing yogi, so her expression of things may differ :shrug:
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Re: Intention

Postby Sherab Dorje » Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:06 pm

If I'm not mistaken this is Buddhist forum, so one would expect Buddhist replies. :shrug:
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Intention

Postby Simon E. » Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:10 pm

Yup, I just checked Greg.

It still says a " Buddhist Forum For Discussion On Mahayana And Vajrayana Buddhism "

Not much room for ambiguity there.
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Re: Intention

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:35 pm

Gwenn Dana wrote:Intention is like blowing a flute.
Your life energy flows through the flute, effortless.
You do not have to do anything.
By concentration you decide which holes are blocked,
and which action thus resonates within you.


Blowing a flute isn't effortless, especially if you have the intention to produce something musical!
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Re: Intention

Postby oushi » Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:41 pm

Gwenn Dana wrote:Intention is like blowing a flute.
Your life energy flows through the flute, effortless.
You do not have to do anything.
By concentration you decide which holes are blocked,
and which action thus resonates within you.

"Intention, I tell you, is karma. Intending, one does karma by way of body, speech, and intellect."
— AN 6.63
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Re: Intention

Postby Gwenn Dana » Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:01 pm

Well. Indeed I did not expect that pretty much every thought I express is opposed with a reference to some ancient book. You cannot be as wrong as suggestions follow my trail here. It helps revise my impression of the meaning of words in Buddhism.

Thus I go practice my art that teaches me what words can not.

Best wishes
Gwenn
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Re: Intention

Postby Simon E. » Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:47 pm

Possessed by the spirit of Yoda you are ?
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Re: Intention

Postby Sherab Dorje » Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:00 pm

You cannot be as wrong as suggestions follow my trail here.
I have no idea what this means.
Simon E. wrote:Possessed by the spirit of Yoda you are ?
:rolling:
Last edited by Sherab Dorje on Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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Re: Intention

Postby garudha » Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:03 pm

Sherab Dorje wrote:If I'm not mistaken this is Buddhist forum, so one would expect Buddhist replies. :shrug:


If I'm not mistaken, I am mistaken, so everything I write is - paradoxically - a mistake? :spy:

Possessed by the spirit of Yoda you are ?
LMAO.
Last edited by garudha on Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Intention

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:11 pm

Gwenn Dana wrote:Well. Indeed I did not expect that pretty much every thought I express is opposed with a reference to some ancient book. You cannot be as wrong as suggestions follow my trail here. It helps revise my impression of the meaning of words in Buddhism.

Thus I go practice my art that teaches me what words can not.

Best wishes
Gwenn



This is a Buddhist forum, no one is just quoting ancient books to you, it's basic Buddhist Doctrine that someone back up with a scriptural reference. It's not anything personal, you can expect though for something like intention, which has a pretty central place in the notion of Karma, that most Buddhists will have a specific opinion on it, more than likely.
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Re: Intention

Postby Gwenn Dana » Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:30 pm

Ok. Most things I have observed on my path so far come from practice. I had no words for them in the beginning. I haven´t really been affiliated with a particular path, and probably Taoism and Yoga have been the most inspiration, because I found them most easily available. If one, then playing pool has taught me the most, since you won´t push beyond a certain level if you cannot get your feelings or thoughts handled. Therefore you have to observe them. And you can either decide to do that or not. I´ve also, on the side, read a lot. But not memorized. But I´ve basically understood that part of what was written which I already perceived on my own. It changed from cryptic to obvious after the corresponding observation. It helped sorting things. Of course, I did not read only one "syllabus". Chaos theory, sociology and a wee bit of psychology among others were equally important.

I'll probably face similar challenges, no matter to which forum I go, since I´ve been a generalist freestyle practitioner most of my life.

Yes, one can make fun of what I say, I'm not a native speaker. Sometimes sentences just go wrong. What is the purpose? Yes, one can also "you better" me. What is the purpose? It appears de-valuing to me. I don´t remember discussion as a one sided event "speak my language or I don´t communicate with you or RTFM". I already learnt English to do that :) I thought this was a forum, not a library.

There´s a difference between hinting at an exclusively fixed definition of a term and directing a you-message at somebody with "I suggest you go read ..."
I sometimes wonder why I made it a habit avoiding those you-messages when I seem to be a magnet for them on the receiving side.

When I write this about "intention" and effortlessness, then it´s not an academic experiment, but something I have observed. The observation cannot be wrong. Only the term can be. And I chose a comparison to transport the message so that I don´t hit too many preset triggers.

Now how the heck did we arrive here?
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Re: Intention

Postby Gwenn Dana » Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:34 pm

Johnny Dangerous wrote: it's basic Buddhist Doctrine that someone back up with a scriptural reference.


Hmmm. I was unaware of that. Then maybe I'm really wrong here. I thought Buddhism was about practice and realization in the now.

Best wishes
Gwenn
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Re: Intention

Postby Johnny Dangerous » Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:51 pm

Gwenn Dana wrote:
Johnny Dangerous wrote: it's basic Buddhist Doctrine that someone back up with a scriptural reference.


Hmmm. I was unaware of that. Then maybe I'm really wrong here. I thought Buddhism was about practice and realization in the now.

Best wishes
Gwenn



I don't really understand what that's supposed to mean, just seems like a soundbite. Practice and intellectual understanding inform one another. There are schools of thought within Buddhism that stress a kind of freedom from concepts from the get go for sure (Zen/Chan, Mahamudra, Dzogchen off the top of my head), and fore sure - ultimate realization is beyond concepts in all traditions.. however those points of view don't supersede or make invalid basic Buddhist doctrine on something like Karma, which is what your post on "intention" seems to be about - to your average Buddhist at least.

That said, since you were unaware that intention/Volition is Karma in Buddhism, it might indeed be worth reading up on the concept a bit, since this is the context in which people on this board will likely approach it.

I'll probably face similar challenges, no matter to which forum I go, since I´ve been a generalist freestyle practitioner most of my life.


Well yeah, most here who actively post are Buddhist. Doesn't mean you shouldn't hang out, or that you should revise your own opinions, just means that many here will come at things from that point of view.
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Re: Intention

Postby LastLegend » Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:00 pm

What does intention looks like? :lol:
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Re: Intention

Postby Sherab Dorje » Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:18 pm

Gwenn Dana wrote:Yes, one can make fun of what I say, I'm not a native speaker. Sometimes sentences just go wrong.
You are overreacting. When I said: "I have no idea what this means." I meant that I did not understand what you were trying to say. Anything else you read into my statement is just your projection
There´s a difference between hinting at an exclusively fixed definition of a term and directing a you-message at somebody with "I suggest you go read ..."
I sometimes wonder why I made it a habit avoiding those you-messages when I seem to be a magnet for them on the receiving side.
Again you are overreacting. My suggestion was just to help clarify (and give you an idea of) the definition that I was using. Anything else you read into my statement is just your projection.
When I write this about "intention" and effortlessness, then it´s not an academic experiment, but something I have observed. The observation cannot be wrong.
The sensory observation may not by wrong, the analysis that arises (is triggered) as a consequence of the sensory experience may be VERY wrong.

But it is quite obvious that you are not actually interested in what Buddhism has to say about experiences and phenomena. When I offered (in another thread) the Buddhist definition of happiness as the "unwavering joy born of equanimity" you just fobbed it off. Now you are doing the same thing when I offer you the Buddhist definition of intention (and are having a hissy fit to boot). So why exactly are you here then "Gwenn" if it is not to learn another perspective? And what is it that leads you to believe that only you are talking from personal experience, whilst everybody else is just being an academic prat and opposing you " with a reference to some ancient book"?
"When one is not in accord with the true view
Meditation and conduct become delusion,
One will not attain the real result
One will be like a blind man who has no eyes."
Naropa - Summary of the View from The Eight Doha Treasures
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