The Crystal and the Way of Light - Blog Post by Namdrol

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The Crystal and the Way of Light - Blog Post by Namdrol

Postby Mr. G » Sun Jan 02, 2011 1:47 pm

For those that don't follow Namdrol's Dzogchen Blog, he made a great post on Namkhai Norbu's book "The Crystal and the Way of Light":

If you are really intelligent, you will understand the meaning of this title automatically and need nothing further. When I first read this book, back in 1987, back in the days of the Harmonic Convergence and so on, I had no clue what it meant, I was suspicious that it might be some new age book. And when I first read about "self-liberation" I was confused since I thought this was a book about Tibetan Buddhism. Well, I have learned a lot since then.

Read More Here...
    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
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Re: The Crystal and the Way of Light - Blog Post by Namdrol

Postby Chaz » Sun Jan 02, 2011 7:56 pm

mr. gordo wrote:For those that don't follow Namdrol's Dzogchen Blog, he made a great post on Namkhai Norbu's book "The Crystal and the Way of Light":

If you are really intelligent, you will understand the meaning of this title automatically and need nothing further. When I first read this book, back in 1987, back in the days of the Harmonic Convergence and so on, I had no clue what it meant, I was suspicious that it might be some new age book. And when I first read about "self-liberation" I was confused since I thought this was a book about Tibetan Buddhism. Well, I have learned a lot since then.

Read More Here...



I find it very hard to take Malcom seriously. This blog posting doesn't disappoint in that regard. I have a casual interest in Dzogchen, so I hoped Mal's post might shed a little light about the book, but alas he spends more time talking about the author than the book's content, or so it seems.

Mal also demonstrates a level of intellectual snobery I find difficult to deal with at times. "If you are really intelligent, you will understand ..." ??????? Are you kidding, Mal? Does that mean if we don't get it, then we're "really stupid"?

Thanks for the post, gordo, but it didn't exactly light my fire, y'know?
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Re: The Crystal and the Way of Light - Blog Post by Namdrol

Postby Mr. G » Sun Jan 02, 2011 8:03 pm

Nah, I hear ya Chaz...different strokes for different folks. Personally I wish he would come back to posting in forums as I think he has a wealth of information. Too bad he doesn't post more in his Sakya blog.
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Re: The Crystal and the Way of Light - Blog Post by Namdrol

Postby Pero » Sun Jan 02, 2011 8:10 pm

Chaz wrote:I find it very hard to take Malcom seriously. This blog posting doesn't disappoint in that regard. I have a casual interest in Dzogchen, so I hoped Mal's post might shed a little light about the book, but alas he spends more time talking about the author than the book's content, or so it seems.


Though Mr. Gordo said it was about Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche's book, IMO it was actually more intended to be about Chogyal Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche, i.e. that it's a good idea to get teachings from him.
I think it was inspired by His recent health problems but you'd have to ask Malcolm.

Mal also demonstrates a level of intellectual snobery I find difficult to deal with at times.


Haha, perhaps that is true but you also seem to be kind of a touchy fellow.

"If you are really intelligent, you will understand ..." ??????? Are you kidding, Mal? Does that mean if we don't get it, then we're "really stupid"?


No, just not really intelligent. I don't know why that's so hard to accept, most of us aren't really intelligent. And intelligence here IMO means capacity (to understand teachings). It's said that those of highest capacity can understand/know the whole teaching just by reading the title.


edit: Almost forgot. About the book, it was the first book on Dzogchen I've ever read. To this day I think I haven't read a more easily readable (and perhaps understandable) book on Dzogchen. I've read it three times so far, and surprisingly each time I seem to learn something new.
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Re: The Crystal and the Way of Light - Blog Post by Namdrol

Postby ratna » Sun Jan 02, 2011 9:35 pm

Chaz wrote:[Mal also demonstrates a level of intellectual snobery I find difficult to deal with at times. "If you are really intelligent, you will understand ..." ??????? Are you kidding, Mal?


This kind expression is actually very traditional in Tibetan Buddhism -- Tibetan commentaries often begin with something like "those of highest capacity will understand the meaning from only the title, the middling ones only need an outline, and for the rest of you folks I'm gonna to go through the text syllable by syllable."

R
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Re: The Crystal and the Way of Light - Blog Post by Namdrol

Postby Mr. G » Sun Jan 02, 2011 9:47 pm

ratna wrote:
Chaz wrote:[Mal also demonstrates a level of intellectual snobery I find difficult to deal with at times. "If you are really intelligent, you will understand ..." ??????? Are you kidding, Mal?


This kind expression is actually very traditional in Tibetan Buddhism -- Tibetan commentaries often begin with something like "those of highest capacity will understand the meaning from only the title, the middling ones only need an outline, and for the rest of you folks I'm gonna to go through the text syllable by syllable."

R


Of course it also shows up not just in Tibetan Buddhism, but Mahayana and Theravada lineages as well. The Buddha taught different discourses to many people depending upon their capacities.
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    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu
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Re: The Crystal and the Way of Light - Blog Post by Namdrol

Postby Pero » Sun Jan 02, 2011 9:49 pm

Chaz wrote:Pero: Yeah, I can be a bit touchy, but even if I thought you're really stupid, I'd try real hard to not confront you with it.


:rolling:
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Re: The Crystal and the Way of Light - Blog Post by Namdrol

Postby Chaz » Sun Jan 02, 2011 9:55 pm

ratna wrote:
Chaz wrote:[Mal also demonstrates a level of intellectual snobery I find difficult to deal with at times. "If you are really intelligent, you will understand ..." ??????? Are you kidding, Mal?


This kind expression is actually very traditional in Tibetan Buddhism -- Tibetan commentaries often begin with something like "those of highest capacity will understand the meaning from only the title, the middling ones only need an outline, and for the rest of you folks I'm gonna to go through the text syllable by syllable."

R



Sorry ratna, but I don't think that capacity and intelligence are the same thing.
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Re: The Crystal and the Way of Light - Blog Post by Namdrol

Postby Blue Garuda » Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:10 pm

mr. gordo wrote:For those that don't follow Namdrol's Dzogchen Blog, he made a great post on Namkhai Norbu's book "The Crystal and the Way of Light":

If you are really intelligent, you will understand the meaning of this title automatically and need nothing further. When I first read this book, back in 1987, back in the days of the Harmonic Convergence and so on, I had no clue what it meant, I was suspicious that it might be some new age book. And when I first read about "self-liberation" I was confused since I thought this was a book about Tibetan Buddhism. Well, I have learned a lot since then.

Read More Here...


Malcolm is being self-depracating here, not lofty or arrogant at all. He explains that someone who has the capacity/intelligence may easily grasp the message conveyed by the title, and then explains that he did not and was suspicious and confused.

I have had few dealings with Malcolm but his advice has always been excellent.
If I were a Dzogchen practitioner and he recommended a text or a teacher I would want to discover more.
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Re: The Crystal and the Way of Light - Blog Post by Namdrol

Postby heart » Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:28 pm

mr. gordo wrote:For those that don't follow Namdrol's Dzogchen Blog, he made a great post on Namkhai Norbu's book "The Crystal and the Way of Light":

If you are really intelligent, you will understand the meaning of this title automatically and need nothing further. When I first read this book, back in 1987, back in the days of the Harmonic Convergence and so on, I had no clue what it meant, I was suspicious that it might be some new age book. And when I first read about "self-liberation" I was confused since I thought this was a book about Tibetan Buddhism. Well, I have learned a lot since then.

Read More Here...


Great blog post by Namdrol on a very special book. My first Dzogchen text. It was a light when it appeared as most of the translations existing at that time was "very dry", to say the least. Reading it you got a distinct feeling that realization was actually in the palm of our hand. It inspired and confused me. Still does in a sense. :smile:

/magnus
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Re: The Crystal and the Way of Light - Blog Post by Namdrol

Postby Chaz » Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:28 pm

Yeshe wrote:
mr. gordo wrote:For those that don't follow Namdrol's Dzogchen Blog, he made a great post on Namkhai Norbu's book "The Crystal and the Way of Light":

If you are really intelligent, you will understand the meaning of this title automatically and need nothing further. When I first read this book, back in 1987, back in the days of the Harmonic Convergence and so on, I had no clue what it meant, I was suspicious that it might be some new age book. And when I first read about "self-liberation" I was confused since I thought this was a book about Tibetan Buddhism. Well, I have learned a lot since then.

Read More Here...


Malcolm is being self-depracating here, not lofty or arrogant at all.


Sorry Yeshe, but I must disagree. Over the years Malcom has shown me enough to be fairly certain that he wasn't just kidding around.

I have had few dealings with Malcolm but his advice has always been excellent.


I've had a few dealings with him myself, but I can't say I share your appraisal. That's ok though. As gordo pointed out, different strokes ....

If I were a Dzogchen practitioner and he recommended a text or a teacher I would want to discover more.


My own guru is a Dzogchen master so I don't need Malcom's endorement of any Dzogchen teaching, but that said, I wouldn't mind picking up a copy of that book and reading it sometime.
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Re: The Crystal and the Way of Light - Blog Post by Namdrol

Postby Pero » Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:40 pm

Chaz wrote:Sorry ratna, but I don't think that capacity and intelligence are the same thing.


I just looked it up and the term in Tibetan for a person of lesser capacity is skyes bu chung ba, which means "lesser person" or "person of inferior scope". That term is short for skyes bu chung ba'i blo, which means "the person of lesser mental capacity".
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Re: The Crystal and the Way of Light - Blog Post by Namdrol

Postby Blue Garuda » Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:46 pm

We must all make our decisions based on what we know.

In my case I always reserve the right to change my opinions. LOL :)
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Re: The Crystal and the Way of Light - Blog Post by Namdrol

Postby Chaz » Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:49 pm

Pero wrote:
Chaz wrote:Sorry ratna, but I don't think that capacity and intelligence are the same thing.


I just looked it up and the term in Tibetan for a person of lesser capacity <snip>


Malcom was speaking English as I recall.
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Re: The Crystal and the Way of Light - Blog Post by Namdrol

Postby Pero » Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:52 pm

heart wrote:and actually quite generous.


That's for sure, for the past week I've been bugging him so much about Tibetan that I've got two pages of emails in my inbox filled with his name and though I was getting a little worried he's going to say to stop bugging him or that he doesn't have time, he hasn't said a word. Not yet anyway haha.
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
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Re: The Crystal and the Way of Light - Blog Post by Namdrol

Postby Pero » Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:57 pm

Chaz wrote:
Pero wrote:
Chaz wrote:Sorry ratna, but I don't think that capacity and intelligence are the same thing.


I just looked it up and the term in Tibetan for a person of lesser capacity <snip>


Malcom was speaking English as I recall.


LOL, yes he was, but you said you think capacity and intelligence aren't the same thing. I thought it was interesting and wondered what is it called in Tibetan. Mental capacity. To me that seems more or less the same as intelligence.
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
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Re: The Crystal and the Way of Light - Blog Post by Namdrol

Postby Chaz » Sun Jan 02, 2011 11:09 pm

Pero wrote:
Chaz wrote:
Pero wrote:I just looked it up and the term in Tibetan for a person of lesser capacity <snip>


Malcom was speaking English as I recall.


LOL, yes he was, but you said you think capacity and intelligence aren't the same thing. I thought it was interesting and wondered what is it called in Tibetan. Mental capacity. To me that seems more or less the same as intelligence.


Ok, I hear that. I think capacity has more to do with a predisposition towards certain things. Not everyone connects with the Mahayana. I see that as a reflection on an individual's capacity. I know a lot of VERY intelligent people who simply don't get Buddhism. At all. That doesn't make them any less intelligent. Some people get it and some people don't. Some people can't do visualization practices. It's not because they're not intelligent enough or hopelessly stupid. Some people simply have no capacity for such things.

That's kind how I view capacity vs intelligence.
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Re: The Crystal and the Way of Light - Blog Post by Namdrol

Postby Mr. G » Sun Jan 02, 2011 11:21 pm

heart wrote:
mr. gordo wrote:For those that don't follow Namdrol's Dzogchen Blog, he made a great post on Namkhai Norbu's book "The Crystal and the Way of Light":

If you are really intelligent, you will understand the meaning of this title automatically and need nothing further. When I first read this book, back in 1987, back in the days of the Harmonic Convergence and so on, I had no clue what it meant, I was suspicious that it might be some new age book. And when I first read about "self-liberation" I was confused since I thought this was a book about Tibetan Buddhism. Well, I have learned a lot since then.

Read More Here...


Great blog post by Namdrol on a very special book. My first Dzogchen text. It was a light when it appeared as most of the translations existing at that time was "very dry", to say the least. Reading it you got a distinct feeling that realization was actually in the palm of our hand. It inspired and confused me. Still does in a sense. :smile:

/magnus


Yes, it is a classic book! :smile:
    How foolish you are,
    grasping the letter of the text and ignoring its intention!
    - Vasubandhu
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Re: The Crystal and the Way of Light - Blog Post by Namdrol

Postby Josef » Mon Jan 03, 2011 6:03 am

Chaz wrote:
mr. gordo wrote:For those that don't follow Namdrol's Dzogchen Blog, he made a great post on Namkhai Norbu's book "The Crystal and the Way of Light":

If you are really intelligent, you will understand the meaning of this title automatically and need nothing further. When I first read this book, back in 1987, back in the days of the Harmonic Convergence and so on, I had no clue what it meant, I was suspicious that it might be some new age book. And when I first read about "self-liberation" I was confused since I thought this was a book about Tibetan Buddhism. Well, I have learned a lot since then.

Read More Here...



I find it very hard to take Malcom seriously. This blog posting doesn't disappoint in that regard. I have a casual interest in Dzogchen, so I hoped Mal's post might shed a little light about the book, but alas he spends more time talking about the author than the book's content, or so it seems.

Mal also demonstrates a level of intellectual snobery I find difficult to deal with at times. "If you are really intelligent, you will understand ..." ??????? Are you kidding, Mal? Does that mean if we don't get it, then we're "really stupid"?

Thanks for the post, gordo, but it didn't exactly light my fire, y'know?

This is actually a play on the traditional introduction of a Tibetan text. The texts often say that for students of the highest acumen the title conveys all of the meaning. It has nothing to do with snobbery.
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Re: The Crystal and the Way of Light - Blog Post by Namdrol

Postby Mariusz » Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:54 am

from the blog:

"If you are a Theravadin, Dzogchen seems similar to Vipassana, if you are a Vajrayanist, Dzogchen seems similar to Mahamudra. If you are Zen pracitioner, Dzogchen seems similar to Zen. If you are a Mahayanist, Dzogchen seems similar to Madhyamaka and so on."

Seems to me very good :smile:
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