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dreams? - Dhamma Wheel

dreams?

Casual discussion amongst spiritual friends.
alan...
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dreams?

Postby alan... » Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:16 pm

from a theravada perspective: what of dreams? should they be ignored? worked with? is there much mention in the canon (i can only find a couple of places, namely the one where the buddha has dreams before he reaches enlightenment about bugs and birds and what not)?

furthermore, to those of you who can honestly say you practice mindfulness nearly at all times and as diligently as possible: do you have lucid dreams?

long ago when i was studying zen and practicing mindfulness, i think after a retreat that involved lots of sutra chanting and mindfulness, i had a couple of them where i was walking around and because i had been practicing mindfulness so diligently i simply knew i was dreaming. as opposed to our normal mindstate where we are thinking about and often doing more than ten things at once and do not notice we are dreaming as we mindlessly drift through dreams the same as we do waking life.

is this something to be cultivated? for example: i have had some dissolving of my ego while conscious, perhaps i could replicate this experience and speed up my progress easily in the dream state since the mind is in total control? maybe one could soar through the jhanas, mastering each one in the dream state and then it would be easier in waking life? or other ways?

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polarbear101
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Re: dreams?

Postby polarbear101 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 10:26 pm

I don't know what an orthodox Theravada perspective on dreams would look like but I have my own plans to use dreams as another means of practice. I want to start doing the whole dream journal thing until I have complete control and recollection of my dreams, once I get to that point I want to simply spend my time dreaming by sitting under a tree and doing anapanasati because I think it would be very interesting to meditate while in a dream. I think being in control of dreaming could be of great long term benefit.
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

alan...
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Re: dreams?

Postby alan... » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:13 pm


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polarbear101
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Re: dreams?

Postby polarbear101 » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:43 pm

I don't have any books on it right now so any recommendations would be great. Thanks. And good luck with your own dream practice! Do you have anything that you specifically want to do in your dreams to further your practice? I guess you did mention jhana, I wonder if you can do those while dreaming, that would certainly be cool.

:namaste:
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

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daverupa
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Re: dreams?

Postby daverupa » Thu Dec 06, 2012 11:46 pm

Hmm... I dream a lot less than I used to, due to the practice...

alan...
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Re: dreams?

Postby alan... » Fri Dec 07, 2012 12:55 am


alan...
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Re: dreams?

Postby alan... » Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:16 am


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daverupa
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Re: dreams?

Postby daverupa » Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:24 am


alan...
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Re: dreams?

Postby alan... » Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:42 am


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daverupa
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Re: dreams?

Postby daverupa » Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:05 am


alan...
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Re: dreams?

Postby alan... » Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:21 am


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beeblebrox
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Re: dreams?

Postby beeblebrox » Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:25 am

I also sleep on the right side (all night). :) It was a bit difficult only for the first few weeks, especially when it used to feel a little painful on the right hip... but now it just feels comfortable. I also sleep on a very thin futon (not due to any particular choice, though...)

I think it's less trouble sleeping this way, because then there's no tossing or turning. Just a solid meditation while falling asleep. I think many people actually don't realize how much energy they expend while in the bed... it's exactly the same with the dukkha while out of bed.

I used to lucid dream often when I was a kid, and played around with it quite a bit... but these days it seems to happen much more rarely. Not sure why, but I think it might be because there's less interest in doing something with my dream. I actually sat to meditate in my dream once, but nothing much came out of that. There was not much stimulus, or anything that was noticed while I was sitting.

This was just one experience though.

:anjali:

alan...
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Re: dreams?

Postby alan... » Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:57 am


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beeblebrox
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Re: dreams?

Postby beeblebrox » Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:20 pm


alan...
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Re: dreams?

Postby alan... » Sat Dec 08, 2012 6:06 am


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yawares
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Re: dreams?

Postby yawares » Thu Dec 13, 2012 4:22 pm

Dear alan,

Please let me tell you a funny conversation between 2 friends. After Tep(my husband) posted "Daily Dhamma about Nutriment [Aahaara]"..that night he had a strange dream..the next day he told me and then his friend (SD Group online)......

Funny conversation!

Tep : Oh, I have a real story to tell you. Last night I had a very vivid dream, just like a 'nimitta' in samatha meditation. In the (early morning) dream I opened my refrigerator door, hoping to find something to eat, but I was startled, really shocked to see the space inside filled with huge lizards of bright, colorful-but-very-ugly loathsome skin ! The sight made me feel like throwing up. I never had a dream like that before in my life.

Image

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Dieter : One interpretation I have read in a psychological article referred to some urge arising during (REM ) sleep which is dealt symbolically with a trick to avoid awakening ( in your case the fridge and the sight to spoil your appetite).

Tep : Your linking of the fridge and the lizards with "spoiling appetite" is pretty good! Your idea falls along the same line with Yawares's interpretation of this dream. She said it was the trick my mind played to stop my frequent going to the fridge!

NOTE:But Tep/I stop eating completely after lunch...Uposatha day or not..we promise each other we'll never be fat!!

Here is the article that Tep posted :

Daily Dhamma(116): Nutriment [Aahaara]; Ekadhammaa

In the Comprehensive Manual of Abhidhamma, p. 318, nutriment condition ('aahaara-paccayo') is explained: "Nutriment condition is a condition where the conditioning state relates to the conditioned states by producing them, maintaining them in existence, and supporting their growth and development. This is compared to a prop which supports an old house and prevents it from collapsing. Thus the essential function of nutriment is supporting or reinforcing (upatthambana). The nutriment is twofold: edible food is a condition for this body; and immaterial nutriment, for the conascent mind-and-matter."

Importantly, the sutta Samyutta Nikaaya 12.11 states that craving is the cause (nidaanaa, samudayaa) for the four nutriments [1. edible food; 2. sense-impression; 3. volitional thought; 4. consciousness.] : "These four nutriments, O monks, have craving as their cause, have craving as their origin, are born of craving, and craving gives them existence."
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References:

1) "Monks, when a monk becomes entirely dispassionate [sammaa nibbindamaano] towards one thing [ekadhammaa], when his lust for it entirely fades away [sammaa virajjamaano], when he is entirely liberated from it [sammaa vimuccamaano], when he sees the complete ending of it [sammaa pariyantadassaavii], then he is one who, after fully comprehending the Goal, makes an end of suffering here and now.

"What one thing? 'All beings subsist by nutriment.' [katamasmi.m eka dhamme: 'sabbe sattaa aahaara.t.thitikaa'] When a monk becomes entirely dispassionate towards this one thing, when his lust for it entirely fades away, when he is entirely liberated from it, and when he sees the complete ending of it, then, O monks, he is one who, after fully comprehending the Goal, makes an end of suffering here and now. [ AN 10.27: (Dutiya) Mahapanha Sutta]
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .nypo.html
http://metta.lk/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pitaka/ ... ggo-e.html

2) "There are, O monks, four nutriments for the sustenance of beings born, and for the support of beings seeking birth. What are the four? Edible food, coarse and fine; secondly, sense-impression; thirdly, volitional thought; fourthly, consciousness. [Katame cattaaro? Kabalinkaaro aahaaro o.laariko vaa sukhumo vaa, phasso dutiyo, manosa~ncetanaa tatiyaa, vi~n~naa.na.m catuttha.m.]
"These four nutriments, O monks, have craving as their cause, have craving as their origin, are born of craving, and craving gives them existence.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .nypo.html
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Vocabulary:

aahaara : food; nutriment.
aahaara.t.thitikaa : subsisting on food.
eka : one
sabba : all; every; whole; entire.
sammaa : properly; rightly; thoroughly.
satta : a creature; living being.
'sabbe sattaa aahaara.t.thitikaa' : 'All beings subsist by nutriment.'

***************
yawares

alan...
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Re: dreams?

Postby alan... » Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:21 am


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Sokehi
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Re: dreams?

Postby Sokehi » Sat Mar 08, 2014 9:55 pm

If this is everything about dreams that a Theravada Perspective offers I'm quite astonished :tongue:

So to restart this thread, what is the Buddhas view on dreams? One could think there should be lots and lots of discourses about dreams, since they are psychologically extremely interesting.
Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko


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David N. Snyder
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Re: dreams?

Postby David N. Snyder » Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:59 pm

There are a few references here in this article:

http://www.buddhisma2z.com/content.php?id=116
Image




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Sokehi
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Re: dreams?

Postby Sokehi » Sun Mar 09, 2014 12:09 am

Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko



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