The return of Kennard Lipman - A new book

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Re: The return of Kennard Lipman - A new book

Postby Pero » Tue Dec 21, 2010 8:55 pm

narraboth wrote:To reply your post, I think it's normal that you need a transmission to practice it? So it's probably not 'too bad.' :P


Hehe, it is too bad if you'd like to actually practice it.

I don't know what they are, but if it's tsa lung practice, even you got WANG and LUNG you wouldn't be able to practice it properly.


No there's just some visualizations. But why wouldn't you be able to practice it (edit: I mean tsa lung) properly even with wang and lung?

udawa wrote:Allowing for Mutsuk's very helpful comments about unreliability issues in the translation, I'm still wondering whether it's worth reading. Any thoughts?


If you're interested for practical purposes and have transmission then it's worth reading. If you don't have transmission but are curious I think it's still worth reading as it is an interesting text, but I don't think there are many practical things in it.
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar
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Re: The return of Kennard Lipman - A new book

Postby narraboth » Fri Dec 24, 2010 4:56 am

---But why wouldn't you be able to practice it (edit: I mean tsa lung) properly even with wang and lung?---

It's not impossible to practice tsa lung with only wang and lung, but tsa lung is so-called 'face to face teaching' in most of cases.
I haven't read tsa lung teaching in Khandro Nyingthig, but I have read similar teaching in other nyingthig, I think they are mostly a breif description. You can't practice it when all those important details are missing. And I think details are crucial for tsa lung, especially the details come from experiences.

Not to mention there's always trul khor, at least some kind of positions in tsa lung teaching; you definitely couldn't do it correctly from words description, even with photos I doubt if you could. (Have you ever buy a YOGA book and practice at home? Even the photos look nice, but you will still have so many questions when you really do them; and I promise you another person won't do the same as you after reading the same book) Trul Khor is not like YOGA excercise, which is OK if you do it a little bit differently. Trul Khor plus tsa lung practice can be very dangerous if you do it wrong. Or it won't work as descrbed. If it won't work, why bother do it?
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Re: The return of Kennard Lipman - A new book

Postby Pero » Fri Dec 24, 2010 5:40 pm

narraboth wrote:I haven't read tsa lung teaching in Khandro Nyingthig, but I have read similar teaching in other nyingthig, I think they are mostly a breif description. You can't practice it when all those important details are missing. And I think details are crucial for tsa lung, especially the details come from experiences.


Ahhh yes for sure.

Not to mention there's always trul khor, at least some kind of positions in tsa lung teaching; you definitely couldn't do it correctly from words description, even with photos I doubt if you could. (Have you ever buy a YOGA book and practice at home? Even the photos look nice, but you will still have so many questions when you really do them; and I promise you another person won't do the same as you after reading the same book) Trul Khor is not like YOGA excercise, which is OK if you do it a little bit differently. Trul Khor plus tsa lung practice can be very dangerous if you do it wrong.


I don't know about that, I think it's possible to learn some things from books (also depends on your past experience and knowledge...), but it's also more dangerous, like you say.
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar
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Re: The return of Kennard Lipman - A new book

Postby narraboth » Fri Dec 24, 2010 10:47 pm

yeah, maybe if you have tsa lung experience already, you don't need all details taught.
Like if you are a chef, you can easily produce a dish base on a very simple description.
But if you don't go to kitchen often, even you got a very nice cookbook, you could still fail.
Cooking failure is not a big deal, tsa lung failure can lead to serious illness, mental or physical, according to Tibetan medicine theory.
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Re: The return of Kennard Lipman - A new book

Postby kirtu » Sat Dec 25, 2010 4:31 am

mutsuk wrote:
heart wrote: Did Jean-Luc translate both the texts to English or is it only in French?


He actually translated the entire Khandro Nyingthik (2 vols!!) but it's all in French (so far... I hope to help him render this into English some day)...


Is that published?

Kirt
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Re: The return of Kennard Lipman - A new book

Postby kirtu » Sat Dec 25, 2010 4:37 am

Pero wrote:Hehe, it is too bad if you'd like to actually practice it.


tsa lung can only be learned and practiced under a qualified lama. There is no other way at all.

Kirt
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“All beings are Buddhas, but obscured by incidental stains. When those have been removed, there is Buddhahood.”
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Re: The return of Kennard Lipman - A new book

Postby kirtu » Sat Dec 25, 2010 4:37 am

Pero wrote:Hehe, it is too bad if you'd like to actually practice it.


tsa lung can only be learned and practiced under a qualified lama. There is no other way at all.

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

“All beings are Buddhas, but obscured by incidental stains. When those have been removed, there is Buddhahood.”
Hevajra Tantra
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Re: The return of Kennard Lipman - A new book

Postby Pero » Sat Dec 25, 2010 1:04 pm

kirtu wrote:tsa lung can only be learned and practiced under a qualified lama. There is no other way at all.


Firstly, there is no tsa lung in this book. And secondly I don't agree. If the oral instruction is written down it's not so difficult to learn from it, the only difference being some specific physical movements or breathing mechanics (which however if you already know it then it shouldn't be a problem to learn different Tsa Lung). But for sure there are more downsides to this way, not really something to play around with, so it's better to do it with a live teacher.
Although many individuals in this age appear to be merely indulging their worldly desires, one does not have the capacity to judge them, so it is best to train in pure vision.
- Shabkar
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Re: The return of Kennard Lipman - A new book

Postby mutsuk » Sat Dec 25, 2010 3:20 pm

kirtu wrote:
mutsuk wrote:
heart wrote: Did Jean-Luc translate both the texts to English or is it only in French?


He actually translated the entire Khandro Nyingthik (2 vols!!) but it's all in French (so far... I hope to help him render this into English some day)...


Is that published?

Kirt


Not yet.
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Re: The return of Kennard Lipman - A new book

Postby kirtu » Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:39 pm

mutsuk wrote:
kirtu wrote:
mutsuk wrote:He actually translated the entire Khandro Nyingthik (2 vols!!) but it's all in French (so far... I hope to help him render this into English some day)...


Is that published?

Kirt


Not yet.


To be clear - the French translation isn't published yet?

Thanks!

Kirt
Kirt's Tibetan Translation Notes

“All beings are Buddhas, but obscured by incidental stains. When those have been removed, there is Buddhahood.”
Hevajra Tantra
kirtu
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Re: The return of Kennard Lipman - A new book

Postby mutsuk » Sun Dec 26, 2010 9:23 am

Correct, it's still unpublished, although Garab Dorje's commentary on the small Takdröl Tantras from the Khandro Nyingthik was published already in 1995.
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Re: The return of Kennard Lipman - A new book

Postby narraboth » Sun Dec 26, 2010 2:55 pm

mutsuk wrote:Correct, it's still unpublished, although Garab Dorje's commentary on the small Takdröl Tantras from the Khandro Nyingthik was published already in 1995.


You mean the 18 tibetan pages one in Khandro Nyingthik yeah?
I know there's a longer Garab dorje's commentary in Vima Nyingthik (maybe because the tags grol tantra here is longer too).
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Re: The return of Kennard Lipman - A new book

Postby mutsuk » Sun Dec 26, 2010 5:55 pm

narraboth wrote:
You mean the 18 tibetan pages one in Khandro Nyingthik yeah?


Yes, its title is bTags-grol don-khrid.
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