No debt - no children

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No debt - no children

Postby nirmal » Thu Dec 23, 2010 5:25 pm

Love is moral to the common.Love is a sorrow and a poison to a Buddhist.

We have sons and daughters because we have debts from our past lives.Now we repay our debts by feeding them, bringing them up and giving them an education.

If we have no debts in our past life, we would have no children.

Should a Buddhist thus view his family with a different perception from the common person?
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Re: No debt - no children

Postby Indrajala » Thu Dec 23, 2010 5:39 pm

Love is moral to the common.Love is a sorrow and a poison to a Buddhist.


That depends on how you define love.

What most people consider love is usually just emotional fixation, lust or a social obligation. It can easily be turned to hatred.

Then there is genuine love in the sense of compassion (karuna) which is unconditional and brought about through wisdom.

We have sons and daughters because we have debts from our past lives.Now we repay our debts by feeding them, bringing them up and giving them an education.


I don't think that is always the case, but perhaps is a good way of looking at bringing up children. To see your duty as a parent as an act of repayment for the loving kindness showed to one in previous lives.
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Re: No debt - no children

Postby nirmal » Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:23 pm

"I don't think that is always the case, but perhaps is a good way of looking at bringing up children. To see your duty as a parent as an act of repayment for the loving kindness showed to one in previous lives."


Perhaps not always the case but in my family it is after learning about it from my Vajraguru.

In my past life, I was in India, a Buddhist too then. I had left my home and went to meditate by the Ganges River all by myself. However, I died while meditating by the river. There was no one around to cremate my body. A kind Indian lady took pity on me and after asking around,she found out that I had no relatives or family around that area and that I was an outsider who had been meditating there for some time.Finally she paid for my funeral expenses and got me cremated.She also threw my ashes into the Ganges River.

In this life, she has been born into my family as my daughter. She is the only one who looks like me and has the colour of my skin.My other two sons are fair and look like my wife.

When I came to know about this,I praised Buddha for his wisdom and the true nature of his teachings. I had a debt, thus I had this daughter whom I love so dearly.My love for my sons is undivided to as they had something to do with my wife. It was based on this that I stated that a Buddhist should view his family with a different perception.
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Re: No debt - no children

Postby Blue Garuda » Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:13 pm

Thanks for that reminder. Sometimes we also forget the karma of those born to us as children.

One may look upon children as also repaying a debt from a previous life by having parents who may be unkind or in need of care themselves, or as in your positive case - of receiving a fortunate rebirth as a result of previous good karma.

Your example of the Indian lady and your daughter is directly reciprocal, and you may find she looks after you once more in your old age. ;)

I have no evidence aside from anecdotal, but I do believe that some beings may share a karmic outcome which leads to their meeting again in future lives. Perhaps the existence of a 'debt' is one such cause.
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Re: No debt - no children

Postby nirmal » Thu Dec 23, 2010 8:12 pm

Yeshe wrote:Thanks for that reminder. Sometimes we also forget the karma of those born to us as children.

One may look upon children as also repaying a debt from a previous life by having parents who may be unkind or in need of care themselves, or as in your positive case - of receiving a fortunate rebirth as a result of previous good karma.

Your example of the Indian lady and your daughter is directly reciprocal, and you may find she looks after you once more in your old age. ;)

I have no evidence aside from anecdotal, but I do believe that some beings may share a karmic outcome which leads to their meeting again in future lives. Perhaps the existence of a 'debt' is one such cause.


And besides that reminder to keep the right view between oneself and one's family, it could further strengthen us to keep the right view of all those relationships between oneself and the Dharma and oneself and the Buddha.
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Re: No debt - no children

Postby Blue Garuda » Thu Dec 23, 2010 8:43 pm

nirmal wrote:
And besides that reminder to keep the right view between oneself and one's family, it could further strengthen us to keep the right view of all those relationships between oneself and the Dharma and oneself and the Buddha.


:anjali:

Love, Compassion and Impermanence experienced within the family are good teachers for us as we develop that universal love and compassion for all beings.
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Re: No debt - no children

Postby Tilopa » Thu Dec 23, 2010 9:30 pm

nirmal wrote:Love is moral to the common.Love is a sorrow and a poison to a Buddhist.

We have sons and daughters because we have debts from our past lives.Now we repay our debts by feeding them, bringing them up and giving them an education.

If we have no debts in our past life, we would have no children.

Should a Buddhist thus view his family with a different perception from the common person?


Love isn't a sorrow to a buddhist or anyone else. It's one of the four immeasurable qualities we all seek to cultivate and to truly love another is the greatest of joys.

It's attachment which is the real poison and the main problem.
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Re: No debt - no children

Postby Ngawang Drolma » Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:05 pm

Yeshe wrote:Love, Compassion and Impermanence experienced within the family are good teachers for us as we develop that universal love and compassion for all beings.

:good:
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Re: No debt - no children

Postby Ogyen » Fri Dec 24, 2010 5:30 am

What is a poison, in the right hands, is also a medicine. Dose is key, as are intent and skill of the administrators...

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Re: No debt - no children

Postby nirmal » Fri Dec 24, 2010 4:17 pm

Ogyen wrote:What is a poison, in the right hands, is also a medicine. Dose is key, as are intent and skill of the administrators...

:heart:
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You gave that a good twist,Ogyen
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Re: No debt - no children

Postby nirmal » Fri Dec 24, 2010 4:19 pm

Yeshe wrote:Thanks for that reminder. Sometimes we also forget the karma of those born to us as children.

One may look upon children as also repaying a debt from a previous life by having parents who may be unkind or in need of care themselves, or as in your positive case - of receiving a fortunate rebirth as a result of previous good karma.

Your example of the Indian lady and your daughter is directly reciprocal, and you may find she looks after you once more in your old age. ;)

I have no evidence aside from anecdotal, but I do believe that some beings may share a karmic outcome which leads to their meeting again in future lives. Perhaps the existence of a 'debt' is one such cause.


Our body is due to our consciousness.We pursued something,desired something and something from our last life remains with us here. Most of us come to this world with our own karma.Why do we have such children, why do we have such a wife or husband,why do we have such parents? It is just basically that in the last lifetime, we had some karma which was not finished.All this karma is in transmigration.There is also some good karma enacted as a vow. Some have such a vow and they go to such and such a family to be born there, have a good education, meet good sages and become initiated to follow the enlightened system.
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Re: No debt - no children

Postby nirmal » Sat Dec 25, 2010 12:06 pm

Tilopa wrote:
nirmal wrote:Love is moral to the common.Love is a sorrow and a poison to a Buddhist.

We have sons and daughters because we have debts from our past lives.Now we repay our debts by feeding them, bringing them up and giving them an education.

If we have no debts in our past life, we would have no children.

Should a Buddhist thus view his family with a different perception from the common person?


Love isn't a sorrow to a buddhist or anyone else. It's one of the four immeasurable qualities we all seek to cultivate and to truly love another is the greatest of joys.

It's attachment which is the real poison and the main problem.


Yes, in that sense love isn't a sorrow or a poison. Love between a man and a woman is a sorrow and a poison.
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Re: No debt - no children

Postby nirmal » Sat Dec 25, 2010 12:42 pm

Tilopa wrote:
nirmal wrote:Love is moral to the common.Love is a sorrow and a poison to a Buddhist.

We have sons and daughters because we have debts from our past lives.Now we repay our debts by feeding them, bringing them up and giving them an education.

If we have no debts in our past life, we would have no children.

Should a Buddhist thus view his family with a different perception from the common person?


Love isn't a sorrow to a buddhist or anyone else. It's one of the four immeasurable qualities we all seek to cultivate and to truly love another is the greatest of joys.

It's attachment which is the real poison and the main problem.


Love between a man and a woman is a sorrow and a poison.
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Re: No debt - no children

Postby Blue Garuda » Sat Dec 25, 2010 1:00 pm

nirmal wrote:
Tilopa wrote:
nirmal wrote:Love is moral to the common.Love is a sorrow and a poison to a Buddhist.

We have sons and daughters because we have debts from our past lives.Now we repay our debts by feeding them, bringing them up and giving them an education.

If we have no debts in our past life, we would have no children.

Should a Buddhist thus view his family with a different perception from the common person?


Love isn't a sorrow to a buddhist or anyone else. It's one of the four immeasurable qualities we all seek to cultivate and to truly love another is the greatest of joys.

It's attachment which is the real poison and the main problem.


Love between a man and a woman is a sorrow and a poison.



Desirous craving may be so, but not love.

Love between any beings is the starting place for the development of universal love and compassion. A being which never experiences love in relation to others will be incapable of applying it.

It is no accident that in monasteries they tell the young boys to think of all beings as their mothers - the closest bond of love for a child - and then expand that gradually to universal love. Compassion follows a similar path - if a being can feel no compassion from one relationship they will be unable to apply it to others.

Suffering cannot arise from love and compassion IMHO, only from desirous attachment, which is altogether different.

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Re: No debt - no children

Postby nirmal » Sat Dec 25, 2010 1:42 pm

Love between a man and a woman is a sorrow and a poison.[/quote]


Desirous craving may be so, but not love.

Love between any beings is the starting place for the development of universal love and compassion. A being which never experiences love in relation to others will be incapable of applying it.

It is no accident that in monasteries they tell the young boys to think of all beings as their mothers - the closest bond of love for a child - and then expand that gradually to universal love. Compassion follows a similar path - if a being can feel no compassion from one relationship they will be unable to apply it to others.

Suffering cannot arise from love and compassion IMHO, only from desirous attachment, which is altogether different.

maitri

Yeshe[/quote]

Ok, I'll rephrase that. Desirous cravings between a man and a woman is a sorrow and a poison
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