China Tells Obama not to meet Dalai Lama

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Re: China Tells Obama not to meet Dalai Lama

Postby odysseus » Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:02 am

Adamantine wrote:Actually Buddhism is still thriving in Tibet despite the oppression, not sure where you are getting your info.


Now Lhasa is a huge drunken bar with materialism as its religion. Buddhism is reduced to a joke. The Dalai Lama is still outlawed. Monks incarcerate themselves. The Chinese installed a second Karmapa. Tibetans are still not welcome in Nepal (only officially thank goodness).
The Chinese spew their propaganda 1984-style 24 hours, religion (Buddhism) is still poison. If you look for authentic Buddhism in Tibet, you will end up with the half-truth because people are scared to express their hearts. No, friend - Buddhism is subjugated in Tibet.

I get my info from various sources. Have you heard about the monk Palden Gyatso? He´s oppressed even in Norway, he was arrested even if he did a peaceful protest in a so called developed country as my own. Money talks, suffering walks!
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Re: China Tells Obama not to meet Dalai Lama

Postby Zhen Li » Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:05 am

I'm not sure who you think you're benefiting here, but I am quite sure you will know that both Karmapas were recognised from within the Tibetan Buddhist community.
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Re: China Tells Obama not to meet Dalai Lama

Postby odysseus » Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:21 am

Well, two Karmapas is a paradox. In order to not get agitated, some people recognize two Karmapas. Do you think the Dalai Lama was wrong or is the Chinese one valid? Unless the Chinese openly permits "real" Buddhism I would not take their words as proper according to Buddhism... Choose whoever Karmapa you think is the genuine (if you must).

I´m not sure if what I say is beneficial but information wants to be free and open.

Oh, and I believe the Panchen Lama is deceased or long gone from the public. We´ll not see him again peace be with him too!!!
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Re: China Tells Obama not to meet Dalai Lama

Postby Adamantine » Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:32 am

Odysseus, you may be right that Lhasa has a red-light dark side, for sure. And in general, Lhasa, as the former political capital of Tibet has been the place most tightly gripped by the Chinese government's oppression. However, the Tibetan region is quite vast and there are many areas where Buddhism is practiced with relative freedom, and there are still many great masters and yogis there, some recently displaying rainbow body, so it is still very much a sacred place despite it's political problems.
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Re: China Tells Obama not to meet Dalai Lama

Postby odysseus » Sat Feb 22, 2014 6:54 am

Adamantine wrote:Odysseus, you may be right that Lhasa has a red-light dark side, for sure. And in general, Lhasa, as the former political capital of Tibet has been the place most tightly gripped by the Chinese government's oppression. However, the Tibetan region is quite vast and there are many areas where Buddhism is practiced with relative freedom, and there are still many great masters and yogis there, some recently displaying rainbow body, so it is still very much a sacred place despite it's political problems.


I guess there are yogis outback that still can be Buddhists. But for the majority, Buddhism is seen as a threat to Chinese rule. I´ve never been there but my sister was and she said that in Potala, there´s nothing there now. No atmosphere, you know. Just the chilled sense of modern "progress". But what do I know, it´s still rape.
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Re: China Tells Obama not to meet Dalai Lama

Postby Adamantine » Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:08 am

odysseus wrote:
I guess there are yogis outback that still can be Buddhists. But for the majority, Buddhism is seen as a threat to Chinese rule. I´ve never been there but my sister was and she said that in Potala, there´s nothing there now. No atmosphere, you know. Just the chilled sense of modern "progress". But what do I know, it´s still rape.



Yeah but like I said, Lhasa is where the Chinese focus their oppression efforts-- and Tibet is a lot vaster than one city. It is a bad situation, but it is certainly still a great center of Dharma.
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Re: China Tells Obama not to meet Dalai Lama

Postby odysseus » Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:25 am

Adamantine wrote: but it is certainly still a great center of Dharma.


I hope so when I get there. But to find free-speaking lamas there, I think not. The rules are told by the Chinese, but they let the "superstitious ones" practice a partial truth. For what I think, a Muslim "dhimmi" could be better off.
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Re: China Tells Obama not to meet Dalai Lama

Postby Zhen Li » Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:02 am

odysseus wrote:Well, two Karmapas is a paradox. In order to not get agitated, some people recognize two Karmapas. Do you think the Dalai Lama was wrong or is the Chinese one valid? Unless the Chinese openly permits "real" Buddhism I would not take their words as proper according to Buddhism... Choose whoever Karmapa you think is the genuine (if you must).

I´m not sure if what I say is beneficial but information wants to be free and open.

Oh, and I believe the Panchen Lama is deceased or long gone from the public. We´ll not see him again peace be with him too!!!

One was recognised by Tai Situ Rinpoche and the other by Kunzig Shamar Rinpoche.
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Re: China Tells Obama not to meet Dalai Lama

Postby JKhedrup » Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:07 am

Just got this report from International Campaign for Tibet in my email:

His Holiness the Dalai Lama met President Barack Obama today for nearly an hour at the White House. During the meeting, President Obama expressed his deep concern about the worsening human rights situation in Tibet, and reiterated his support for the preservation of the unique religious, cultural, and linguistic traditions of Tibet, according to a statement issued by the Central Tibetan Administration in Dharamsala this morning (February 21). It was the third meeting during President Obama’s presidency, and fourth time overall.

Matteo Mecacci, President of the International Campaign for Tibet, said: "This meeting affirms the long-standing friendship and respect of the United States toward His Holiness, his message, and his cause. American policy-makers understand that the stability Chinese leaders seek will not be fulfilled without a solution on Tibet. The steadfast U.S. support for dialogue and preservation of Tibet's unique heritage is reflected both through this meeting and through its Tibet policy and programs. ICT will continue to work at the global level to strengthen the political support for the Tibetan cause, while China increases its pressure and influence on democratic governments worldwide."

The Tibetan Central Administration in Dharamsala reported:

“In an almost hour-long meeting, His Holiness shared his core commitment related to promotion of human values, fostering interfaith dialogue and preservation of Tibetan people’s unique culture and rich tradition. The two leaders also discussed issues related to morality and leadership, and how one can produce new generation of ethical leaders in the 21st century.

“President Obama said that he was honored to meet His Holiness again. He reiterated his support for His Holiness’ Middle Way Approach policy and reiterated that Chinese government should have constructive dialogue with His Holiness’ representatives without any precondition. President Obama asked His Holiness the Dalai Lama about Tibet and His Holiness explained the current situation. President Obama expressed his deep concern about the worsening human rights situation in Tibet and Tibetan areas in China.”

Sikyong Lobsang Sangay said the “meeting reflects the American government and people’s continued commitment to freedom and democracy.” (www.tibet.net).

The meeting at the White House comes a week after Secretary of State John Kerry specifically raised concerns about the human rights situation in Tibet with top Chinese leaders in Beijing. President Obama is likely to talk with Chinese President Xi Jinping at a nuclear issues summit in the Netherlands in March, and is scheduled travel to four Asian countries in April, although not to China.

While the Dalai Lama has formally relinquished his political duties in the Central Tibetan Administration, he has said he will continue his responsibility to advocate for his people. He has stated that, as he continues a busy travel schedule to cities around the world, his visits to Washington, DC, and Brussels are political in nature.

The Dalai Lama met with President Obama in the White House in February 2010 and July 2011. In addition, he met then-Senator Obama at the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in 2005. Today's meeting occurred during the first of two visits to Washington by the Dalai Lama; he returns during the first week of March 2014.

The Dalai Lama's visits to the White House, which began in 1991 and encompass meetings with four U.S. Presidents, are both a reflection and result of the base of support that the American public has for the Dalai Lama and his messages of universal peace and justice. ICT will continue to call on our supporters worldwide to help amplify Tibetan voices.

The White House statement on the meeting is as follows:
Readout of the President’s Meeting with His Holiness the XIV Dalai Lama

The President met this morning at the White House with His Holiness the XIV Dalai Lama. The President reiterated his strong support for the preservation of Tibet’s unique religious, cultural, and linguistic traditions and the protection of human rights for Tibetans in the People’s Republic of China. The President commended the Dalai Lama’s commitment to peace and nonviolence and expressed support for the Dalai Lama’s “Middle Way” approach. The President stressed that he encourages direct dialogue to resolve long-standing differences and that a dialogue that produces results would be positive for China and Tibetans. In this context, the President reiterated the U.S. position that Tibet is part of the People’s Republic of China and that the United States does not support Tibet independence. The Dalai Lama stated that he is not seeking independence for Tibet and hopes that dialogue between his representatives and the Chinese government will resume. The President and the Dalai Lama agreed on the importance of a positive and constructive relationship between the United States and China.
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Re: China Tells Obama not to meet Dalai Lama

Postby odysseus » Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:18 am

Zhen Li wrote:One was recognised by Tai Situ Rinpoche and the other by Kunzig Shamar Rinpoche.


Tai Situpa is genuine I can tell. But a Karmapa that is mostly only recognized by Lama Ole Nydahl I am not sure about. Lama Ole is a good teacher intellectually but he has not much realization. It´s to keep the peace and not make the Chinese angry. But of course, you can subscribe to whichever Karmapa you wish. His teachings and persona will tell whether he is real.
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Re: China Tells Obama not to meet Dalai Lama

Postby odysseus » Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:19 am

JKhedrup wrote:Just got this report from International Campaign for Tibet in my email:
...


Not much to go on, but at least a comment.
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Re: China Tells Obama not to meet Dalai Lama

Postby Zhen Li » Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:34 am

odysseus wrote:Tai Situpa is genuine I can tell. But a Karmapa that is mostly only recognized by Lama Ole Nydahl I am not sure about. Lama Ole is a good teacher intellectually but he has not much realization. It´s to keep the peace and not make the Chinese angry. But of course, you can subscribe to whichever Karmapa you wish. His teachings and persona will tell whether he is real.

Sorry, I just don't follow your reasoning.

This wasn't about me choosing to follow a Karmapa, it's about your claim that one was chosen by the Chinese government.

I hope that cleared things up.
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Re: China Tells Obama not to meet Dalai Lama

Postby odysseus » Sat Feb 22, 2014 9:10 am

Zhen Li wrote:
This wasn't about me choosing to follow a Karmapa, it's about your claim that one was chosen by the Chinese government.



Thus have I heard: He was appointed by Chinese influence. Have no source now to back it up though but I think I´ve read it somewhere. I don´t have all the details of the controversy but we nonetheless have to check up on our teachers thoroughly before we commit ourselves. It´s up to us now. It´s a two-edged sword, it cuts you from both sides that issue.
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Re: China Tells Obama not to meet Dalai Lama

Postby Zhen Li » Sat Feb 22, 2014 9:12 am

To some, a rose is only thorns.
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Re: China Tells Obama not to meet Dalai Lama

Postby odysseus » Sat Feb 22, 2014 9:39 am

Zhen Li wrote:To some, a rose is only thorns.


Let all smell those fragrant leaves before we get to the thorns. A love affair can have both as you say.
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Re: China Tells Obama not to meet Dalai Lama

Postby AlexanderS » Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:33 pm

odysseus wrote:
Zhen Li wrote:One was recognised by Tai Situ Rinpoche and the other by Kunzig Shamar Rinpoche.


Tai Situpa is genuine I can tell. But a Karmapa that is mostly only recognized by Lama Ole Nydahl I am not sure about. Lama Ole is a good teacher intellectually but he has not much realization. It´s to keep the peace and not make the Chinese angry. But of course, you can subscribe to whichever Karmapa you wish. His teachings and persona will tell whether he is real.


Trinley Thaye Dordje is not only mostly recognized by Ole Nydahl(though I question your ability to gauge a teachers realization). He is recognized by the 2nd highest ranking member of the Karma Kagyu linage who is often historically referred to as the Red Hat Karmapa because he and The Black Hat Karmapa are thought to be inseperable, great yogis like Chödro löpon Rinpoche and Gendun Rinpoche, and fully backed by the KCT. If you willing to challenge your own beliefs on this topic, I recommend "The Karmapa Prophecies" by Sylvia Wong.
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Re: China Tells Obama not to meet Dalai Lama

Postby odysseus » Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:46 am

AlexanderS wrote:Ole Nydahl(though I question your ability to gauge a teachers realization).


Well, since I´m 0,5 percent enlightened I can tell! Just a joke, but Nydahl seems to take a superficial attitude and makes Buddhism into entertainment for the masses rather then displaying genuine qualities and commitment of a lama.

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