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 Post subject: Organ Donor?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:12 pm 
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Ha ha...I was just wondering...how many Cho-pa's are registered as an organ donor?
:namaste:

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 Post subject: Re: Organ Donor?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 9:34 pm 
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:twothumbsup: Now that's funny!!

They may have exceptions to the medical useage of thigh bones however :smile:

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 Post subject: Re: Organ Donor?
PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:38 pm 
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Hello, :)

What is the reason for getting a donated heart, kidneys and later maybe a new head?

Extending the live? When the time has come to leave this illusionary body then we must leave that body.
I guess there are people who like to live for ever because they fear to die, are not convinced about karma or like to live in luxury longer etc..

It is a form of perversion a la 20th century and invented by the rich welfare countries.
Further in the poor countries they sell their kidney etc. for slow money for the nervous waiting perverted rich men.

Also did i heard that they catch young persons in the second world countries, rip out their organ(s) and throw then as an empty bag in the trash can.

So i want to underline also here, the illegal side of this money business which is a shame.

Then for some of us counts the maximum of 49 days of the Bardo State and here we do not touch the body at all, we leave it in peace.

Then with a new heart the people can get older and so they can work more, instead of 60 to 65 years (the time of their pension), so they can work for ever and long live the workaholic.....

So for me, a donor organ does not has to do something with compassion, but more with a perverted point of view.
i guess one lives a long and healthy live due to positive karma....... :shock:

Best wishes
kalden Yungdrung


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 Post subject: Re: Organ Donor?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 1:08 am 
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It is a common practice in USA for one who has a drivers license for operating a motor vehicle to be a registered organ donor. This way the tragedy of death through automobile accident may be turned into a gift for a being suffering from terrible organ failure. Perhaps the result of this will be that the recipient will have additional time in this precious life to advance in the Dharma. Perhaps the recipient will go forth as a mass murderer. Karma is not predictable by this ignorant one.
It is certainly unfortunate that evil people kill for money. Perhaps if one or more of my organs are used then there will be one or more less unfortunate ones who are killed for their organs through this illegal and immoral flesh trade.
Personally I have no use for this lump of flesh and blood and bone when this body has ceased to breath.
I am also a regular blood donor.
If an honorable one wishes to have my thigh bone I will have no further use for it when this inherently non-existent one is dead.
By the way...this post was intended as a funny joke. Goes to show ones actions do not always have the result one expects. Thanks for the lesson kalden yungdrung.

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 Post subject: Re: Organ Donor?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:09 am 
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On a serious note, I am a organ donar as well.

Will a organ of mine go to some unfortunate who will waste their time in sensory pursuit...perhaps.

Will a organ of mine go to some fortunate, a spiritual teacher of the dharma as perhaps a liver did just recently to one of those, and then they go on bringing many more to the dharma ....Perhaps.

While it is perferable to have the body untouched after it dies I suspect such altruistic use of body may remedy this concentration focus due to the operation of removal. It perhaps could be my karmic fate to have my body eaten by mountain lion in wilderness when I meditate . Will I then assume I have a bad consequence of rebirth due to my body being thusly eaten.....well the story of one who advanced to full enlightenment speaks against that. Of course I am but equal to a flea or speck of dirt on a sandle of such a person but.....the lesson, that lesson is clear.

If I rebirth to lesser state because of such altruistic use of my body......I don't give a flying capital F.
I will do it again and again and again.....Maybe they use it for good maybe for bad.....I
don't care...use it they may. Gladly, I hope they do.

won't give blood though...gives me the willies :smile:

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 Post subject: Re: Organ Donor?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:50 am 
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who wants a lollipop for being a good boy or girl?


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 Post subject: Re: Organ Donor?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:07 am 
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Who wants attachment to a stinking piece of dead meat....geeze louise.
Time to give it up already.

Quick death...quick powah method.
Slow death unattended...right side arms/hands over orfices. Visionary use of symbol to block unwanted paths. Slow powah method.

So what's the worry?
It's not death to worry about....the birth it is that causes the death.
If I lament the death I should firstly lament the birth.
Good or bad..in the eyes of death there seemingly are no goods nor bads nor lollipops to go around....cause and effect only. Result in the main...a reaped harvest, with no I the harvester.

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"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.


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 Post subject: Re: Organ Donor?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:11 am 
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Hello dear donor suppliers,

If you would have a serious heart faillure would you be able to walk around with a strange heart inside your body?

Also to consider that the heart is the seat of the conciousness and soul?
Do you know a person with a strangers heart?

I do not mention here Phowas and the Rainbow body but the dangerous meat business whish is done by tricky dicky humans which has unknown and uncertain factors or unseen political manipulations to the unrealised who cannot do Phowa and cannot obtain a Rainbow Body etc. We have to see this all in that responsability and not in only in our abilities. :o

I know only that one is chopped and be throwing to the vultures after the death process is finished with its rituals. In the Tibet from before 1959,nobody gave away his heart , kidneys and head away during live as well after dying and this must have had its reasons. One is that surgery was only undertaken in an utmost nescessary case like Hippocrates also did underlined in the western medicine.

So i hope that you are able to do Phowa and hope that they do not catch you when you are doing Phowa because they like fresh beating hearts. Legal abortus is also such an unknown case because they do not know when the mind is into the body..........
Very dangerous to cooperate with our expensive western medicinal world which do cost us enormous money yearly and who forbid or do not use the cheap herbal medicine, give expensive chemicals, underestimate acupuncture etc.

The principle is very easy, when this body has reached the end of its life span then it is a normal case that one has to quit with this life, because it is over our time. So untill now did not i see that a Karmapa or other spiritual leader did take another heart when he would have needed another heart etc. to prolongue his live.So their example has a meaning not to take a donor heart etc. So then should we also not do that but then should we partake to that culture by giving away our heart after dying?

Yes we must live longer to be able to work because we have not so much young workers who cannot pay the pensions of the others, that are the unseen reasons for these donor hearts etc. Living longer with more costs in a world which is violated etc. there is no cooperation from my side for these political manipulations so i am not a defender of this illusionary political manipulated world, more a defender to get rid of it by practicing dharma and not to be reborn again as human with karma into these worlds


It is the same with the example that when one does not like stealing one does not buy the stolen goods.
In case we would be a defender to take a used heart inside our body then we can also agree to give our heart away but in case of not the logic would be not to be involved into that bloody business.

They are allready explaining that it is better when the heart is beating to take it out because of the better quality..........
What does this mean? Where does it start and where does it end?

All came to into existence because of the blood donation. That i see also sometimes as big business because one gives it for free and the others sell it for good prices or one soldiier is shot down and gets new blood to be able to kill more etc.
We know Ron Wood from the Stones who did years ago a regular blood cleaning because he was too addicted to heroin. Because of this blood cleaning process he regained his vitality back......


So i do enough for others during live and the best thing i am doing is to spread the Dharma to others during this live because that is the most precious jewel, present one can give to others and when one does undertake this then no other things are needed to give to others. Then one is also sure from the result, sees it and does experience it. That is the only positive karma i can imagine myself, but giving away my heart to an old perverted person who is greedy etc. that is what i never would do. It is acting without Wisdom. So Compassion without Wisdom that is a stupid case.

Oh i forgot that exmple of to be froozen for 200 years, then we can wait untill the next Buddha is on earth or we have better times etc. All working on illusions with illusions like our illusionary phisycal body is.

What i would like is to get a donor mind from the Buddhas for free :jumping:

best wishes for our Wisdom and insight
Kalden Yungdrung

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THOUGH A MAN BE LEARNED
IF HE DOES NOT APPLY HIS KNOWLEDGE
HE RESEMBLES THE BLIND MAN
WHO WITH A LAMP IN THE HAND CANNOT SEE THE ROAD


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 Post subject: Re: Organ Donor?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 5:17 pm 
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I wouldn't take Thurman as being any definitive authority for Tibetan Buddhism but I think he may reflect a current view on this thing of organ donation......

http://www.donatelifeny.org/pdf/RobertThurman.pdf

So far at least, none here is advocating for being a receipant of donated organs but for offering them to people in need.

As has been pointed out..... if anything such offering for free, if widespread enough, would largly eliminate the illegal trade in organs which certainly exists.

Hearts i know not of...one dharma master of another tradition has just seemingly received a donated liver.

The brain may be clinically dead and the heart still beating that is medical fact upon donation.
As brain is dead with no possibility of furthur brain activity there seems no possibility of advanceing any furthur in the spiritual as result of having this human body at that time, other than as a strict function of utilization of karmic effect. A beating heart with no brain function would equilivent to many animals. So one would for all intents and purposes be a animal, in a animal realm. That is fine and may remove some latent karmic effect but someone else may need the heart and has asked for it.
So thusly as the individual will not advance as human as result of having no brain but a heart there is no fault in giving the heart for another to live. They, that person, may or may not advance in the dharma but it then becomes possible that they may. Certainly if one is a base corse person presently.... having death at that time will virtually assure them a bad rebirth. If they get a new heart they may have a slight chance of changing their ways, and obtaining a more fortunate rebirth.
So it is better to give the heart if brain is dead if asked for. If not asked for, it, the situation of being brain dead but still alive with beating heart, may remove stored karma that has necessitated this occur, and it should not be done.

I have heard of HHDL speaking very highly of one monk who offered to give not only one eye but two eyes to someone who had become blind. So while he has not spoken to the issue exactly perhaps, I suggest thurmans comments follow through on this thing. Though that monk would remain alive it is still a organ donation.

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"This order considers that progress can be achieved more rapidly during a single month of self-transformation through terrifying conditions in rough terrain and in "the abode of harmful forces" than through meditating for a period of three years in towns and monasteries"....Takpo Tashi Namgyal.


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 Post subject: Re: Organ Donor?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:45 pm 
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I want my lollipop!!!
Seriously though at my age I would refuse an organ into my body...what a waste of meat that would be :tongue:
I am fortunate however to be in good health. I have always planned to live until 100 years. Now that I am closer I say maybe 103. Ha ha, see I am just a funny guy! :rolling:

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 Post subject: Re: Organ Donor?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 3:47 pm 
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swampflower wrote:
Ha ha...I was just wondering...how many Cho-pa's are registered as an organ donor?
:namaste:

This one most certainly is.


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 Post subject: Re: Organ Donor?
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 2:10 am 
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I signed my organ donor card, and I have a living will that says if I'm brain dead but my heart's still beating I'm ok with letting parts be harvested.


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 Post subject: Re: Organ Donor?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 2:39 pm 
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There's a very interesting article about organ transplantation, essentially from a Theravada Buddhist perspective, but with references to the wider tradition, on the Journal of Buddhist ethics site http://blogs.dickinson.edu/buddhistethics/2010/05/15/buddhism-brain-death-and-organ-transplantation-2/

It may not be so straightforward...

D

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 Post subject: Re: Organ Donor?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 5:45 pm 
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udawa wrote:

It may not be so straightforward...

D

In my opinion is it straightforward if one is a chodpa.
A chod practitioner should be fully prepared to offer their body to benefit others and organ donation at the time of "brain death".
Organ donation should be an extension of the chodpa's practice.


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 Post subject: Re: Organ Donor?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 6:33 pm 
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Nangwa wrote:
udawa wrote:

It may not be so straightforward...

D


In my opinion is it straightforward if one is a chodpa.
A chod practitioner should be fully prepared to offer their body to benefit others and organ donation at the time of "brain death".
Organ donation should be an extension of the chodpa's practice.


Nangwa,

I'm interested to know if that is the view of your Tibetan teacher(s)? My memory of Keown's article is that the Tibetans he spoke with were initially very enthusiastic about organ donation, but became much more cautious once he spelled out the actual process involved.

D

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 Post subject: Re: Organ Donor?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 6:37 pm 
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I'm not saying I'm a chopa but no, I'm not an organ donor.

Best,
Laura


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 Post subject: Re: Organ Donor?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 7:25 pm 
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udawa wrote:
Nangwa wrote:
udawa wrote:

It may not be so straightforward...

D


In my opinion is it straightforward if one is a chodpa.
A chod practitioner should be fully prepared to offer their body to benefit others and organ donation at the time of "brain death".
Organ donation should be an extension of the chodpa's practice.


Nangwa,

I'm interested to know if that is the view of your Tibetan teacher(s)? My memory of Keown's article is that the Tibetans he spoke with were initially very enthusiastic about organ donation, but became much more cautious once he spelled out the actual process involved.

D

I actually am not sure what my teachers opinions are specifically on the chod and organ donation discussion.
I think there is indeed cause to be cautious. But from the perspective of a serious chod practitioner caution isnt really a big part of the approach. If one of the main focuses of your practice is giving your body to other beings then it would only make sense the the next step would be to actually do so at death.


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 Post subject: Re: Organ Donor?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:52 am 
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Quote:
But from the perspective of a serious chod practitioner caution isnt really a big part of the approach.

Indeed, and well said.

But I wonder how many 'serious chod practitioners' have donated their organs in this way? Do any Tibetan teachers or monks and nuns living in the West carry donor cards, for example?

D

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 Post subject: Re: Organ Donor?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:09 pm 
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udawa wrote:
Quote:

But I wonder how many 'serious chod practitioners' have donated their organs in this way? Do any Tibetan teachers or monks and nuns living in the West carry donor cards, for example?

D

Its a good and interesting question. One to which I dont know of an answer.
If you hear or find anything out I would be curious to know it.


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 Post subject: Re: Organ Donor?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 18, 2010 3:51 pm 
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Nangwa wrote:
udawa wrote:
Quote:

But I wonder how many 'serious chod practitioners' have donated their organs in this way? Do any Tibetan teachers or monks and nuns living in the West carry donor cards, for example?

D

Its a good and interesting question. One to which I dont know of an answer.
If you hear or find anything out I would be curious to know it.


Will do. Maybe you could ask around too? It's interesting that there appears to be so little written about this issue, from a Tibetan perspective, which suggests it may indeed not be all that straightforward.

D

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