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 Post subject: Matter and Mind
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:25 am 
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Tashi delek dear readers, :)

Very interesting to hear your opinion about:

MIND AND MATTER

Question:
Is matter mind made?


Best wishes for our individual studies.


Mutsog Marro
Kalden Yungdrung

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IF HE DOES NOT APPLY HIS KNOWLEDGE
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 Post subject: Re: Matter and Mind
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:55 am 
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do you mind if it doesnt matter?

taken only in dualistic way and vision, of this over here, and that over there.........,

mind is karma, karma is also gross material elements, elements make trees and birds, karma also produces roof tops and houses to live in, that is common shared vision of material karmic needs of human sphere. animals see a den as a home, we see a hole in the ground...

no one vision is greater than another.


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 Post subject: Re: Matter and Mind
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 5:39 am 
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My intellectual speculation:

Matter is a display of rigpa.
Mind is a display of rigpa.
Mind - not seeing that it and matter are displays of rigpa, thereby setting up the duality of self and other and their reification - is Ignorance.
When Ignorance disappears, rigpa appears.


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 Post subject: Re: Matter and Mind
PostPosted: Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:49 am 
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Heruka wrote:
do you mind if it doesnt matter?

taken only in dualistic way and vision, of this over here, and that over there.........,

mind is karma, karma is also gross material elements, elements make trees and birds, karma also produces roof tops and houses to live in, that is common shared vision of material karmic needs of human sphere. animals see a den as a home, we see a hole in the ground...

no one vision is greater than another.



Tashi delek Heruka, :)

Thanks for your reply.

It is hardly discussed if mind would be the creator of matter.
In some religions this is true, that they have for this creation(s) a God which Buddhism denies.

Well what a God and nobody can create that would be the emptiness, which is the base of all material things as well of the mind.

Also very clear would be that mind is the source of all happenings here and everywhere.
Mind is the boss of the physical body.

So in this light seen we can assume that mind would be the creator of illusion but is the element like carbon also illusion? When we are not there with mind, then does carbon sure exist, or not?

Thought that the grosser levels of karma are based up deeds which are collected and not on matter.

So i guess that to understand the creator of matter we need to investigate this in the light of the Dzogchen tradition............ It is very difficult to make explanations from other sources about the matter and its cause e.g. its creator.

Here we can see that mind is unborn and ill never die.
So mind is the source or emptiness.

- Everything is coming out / born of emptiness
- Everything stays
- Everything is dissolved again in this emptiness

So here it is a repeating happening of the matter and the question is was it done with the help of a person, God etc?

I guess it is the never ending energy or Tsal which is responsible for this.

It is mind made because also we know the Cittamatra with their mind only philosophy.
Here it is hard to understand that our mind colours the objects.
Also in the Bardo the mind is aware from outer objects, but does not know mostly that his mind is the cause here and that there are no outer objects than mind if the illusionary body died.

Like told before do i guess or am convinced that the mind is the source of all there is.

Further am i also convinced that the main things (elements) are:

- Mind with clearness and emptiness
- Emptiness without clearness
- Sound
- Light
- Matter


Mutsog Marro
Kalden Yungdrung

_________________
THOUGH A MAN BE LEARNED
IF HE DOES NOT APPLY HIS KNOWLEDGE
HE RESEMBLES THE BLIND MAN
WHO WITH A LAMP IN THE HAND CANNOT SEE THE ROAD


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 Post subject: Re: Matter and Mind
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 11:38 am 
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Oh well! Find an atom in minds' display! Mind and matter, empty essence and not two.

In fabrications - mental constructions; delusion clings in aversion/attachments to minds' display.
Having lost primordial openess in which no defilement can live and where inner enemy naturally subsides, objects can dissolve.

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 Post subject: Re: Matter and Mind
PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 7:19 pm 
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kalden yungdrung wrote:
So in this light seen we can assume that mind would be the creator of illusion but is the element like carbon also illusion? When we are not there with mind, then does carbon sure exist, or not?



This is what Longchenpa says:

Quote:
Experience may arise in the mind but it is neither mind nor anything but mind; it is a vivid display of absence, like magical illusion, in the very moment inconceivable and unutterable. All experience arising in the mind, at its inception, know it as absence! Constantly deconstructing, investigating keenly, not even the slightest substance can be found; and in the undivided moment of nondual perception we abide in the natural state of perfection. Just as the objective field is absent in reality, so 'the knower' - in actuality pure mind, in essence an absence, is like the clear sky: know it in its ineffable reality! Absent when scrutinized, absent when ignored, not even an iota of solid matter is attested; so all aspects of experience are always absent know it as nothing but magical illusion!


There's an in-depth discussion on idealism by Longchenpa in the introduction to Manjushrimitra's "Primordial Experience".

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Look at the unfathomable spinelessness of man: all the means he's been given to stay alert he uses, in the end, to ornament his sleep. – Rene Daumal


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 Post subject: Re: Matter and Mind
PostPosted: Sun Dec 19, 2010 7:33 pm 
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mind series is not the whole picture.


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 Post subject: Re: Matter and Mind
PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:13 pm 
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matter is mind, mind is matter, matter is matter, mind is mind. mind is fundamental. matter is fundamental. the fundamental is not a thing. this sentence is the fundamental. these are not a thing and yet all things at the same time. illusory, sold. illusory, real. neither of these, both of these at the same time. trying not to fixate on one position, it makes its stance no where.

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in any matters of importance. dont rely on me. i may not know what i am talking about. take what i say as mere speculation. i am not ordained. nor do i have a formal training. i do believe though that if i am wrong on any point. there are those on this site who i hope will quickly point out my mistakes.


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 Post subject: Re: Matter and Mind
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:44 pm 
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Longchenpa's own commentary to the Choying Dzod sheds a lot of light on this subject.


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