Such as?Malcolm wrote:because his views came under such harsh criticism from Sakya scholars such as Gorampa.
Western geshes and khenpos
Re: Western geshes and khenpos
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.
-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra
"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."
-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats
-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra
"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."
-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats
Re: Western geshes and khenpos
Malcolm is one of the few people who hold the distinguished title of Loppon.
Kevin
Kevin
Last edited by Virgo on Sun Jan 26, 2014 4:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Western geshes and khenpos
Gorampa, in his commentary on the Madhyamakāvatara lists over a hundred points where he thinks Tsongkhapa erred.Konchog1 wrote:Such as?Malcolm wrote:because his views came under such harsh criticism from Sakya scholars such as Gorampa.
The standard summary of Gorampa's critiques of Tsongkhapa are to found in his famous "Differentiation of Views".
Thus far, Gorampa's views have not been effectively countered by any Gelug scholar I know as they generally refuse to read Gorampa.
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Re: Western geshes and khenpos
Spillover from another thread. I was talking about the current Karma Kagyu interpretation of Shentong and I said that it was better to ask an ethnically Tibetan lama rather than a white guy. That led to a question about who is authoritative to answer questions about Shentong for the Karma Kagyus, etc.Punya wrote: I wonder why you are asking the question. Not to be provocative but just asking.
The geshe degree is for an academic understanding of Dharma. So they can answer questions and teach within limits.My understanding is that that not all geshes are empowered to teach. I get the impression that a geshe would have a very thorough understanding of the theory but not necessarily be so strong on practice. I'm not so sure about khenpos, but I think this title more specifically designates them as teachers.
Start a new thread!It might be more useful to know which westerners are empowered to teach but I guess that would be a longer list.
1.The problem isn’t ‘ignorance’. The problem is the mind you have right now. (H.H. Karmapa XVII @NYC 2/4/18)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
2. I support Mingyur R and HHDL in their positions against lama abuse.
3. Student: Lama, I thought I might die but then I realized that the 3 Jewels would protect me.
Lama: Even If you had died the 3 Jewels would still have protected you. (DW post by Fortyeightvows)
Re: Western geshes and khenpos
It seems like what you mean is that the khenpos have the appropriate training to answer such questions and as far you know the khenpos are all tibetan ie it's about training not ethnicity.
The respected khenpos are the go-to guys because the tibetan incarnate rinpoches don't receive the same kind of education. Well, according to the rinpoches I know anyway.
I don't necessarily agree though with the general premise that non-khenpos or geshes can't be authoritative. My local rinpoche has a very high regard for Robert Thurman, for example. But perhaps you are only talking in the context of Karma Kagyu and your other discussion.
The respected khenpos are the go-to guys because the tibetan incarnate rinpoches don't receive the same kind of education. Well, according to the rinpoches I know anyway.
I don't necessarily agree though with the general premise that non-khenpos or geshes can't be authoritative. My local rinpoche has a very high regard for Robert Thurman, for example. But perhaps you are only talking in the context of Karma Kagyu and your other discussion.
Last edited by Punya on Sun Jan 26, 2014 6:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
We abide nowhere. We possess nothing.
~Chatral Rinpoche
~Chatral Rinpoche
- Adamantine
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Re: Western geshes and khenpos
What is the difference between loppon and khenpo?Virgo wrote:Malcolm is one of the few people who hold the distinguished title of Loppon.
Kevin
I know a loppon who has a very limited breadth of knowledge, I think it was just an honorary title I guess. . or maybe it acknowledges their competence and capacity in a particular focus of Dharma practice and study, rather than a wide one. I think Khenpo usually indicates someone with a vast breadth of knowledge in the Dharma, that's why I am asking.. never been clear on the meaning of loppon.
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
Re: Western geshes and khenpos
Hmm, no English translation. Could you please bulletpoint some of them here?Malcolm wrote:Gorampa, in his commentary on the Madhyamakāvatara lists over a hundred points where he thinks Tsongkhapa erred.Konchog1 wrote:Such as?Malcolm wrote:because his views came under such harsh criticism from Sakya scholars such as Gorampa.
The standard summary of Gorampa's critiques of Tsongkhapa are to found in his famous "Differentiation of Views".
Thus far, Gorampa's views have not been effectively countered by any Gelug scholar I know as they generally refuse to read Gorampa.
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.
-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra
"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."
-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats
-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra
"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."
-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats
- Adamantine
- Former staff member
- Posts: 4027
- Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 7:09 am
- Location: Space is the Place
Re: Western geshes and khenpos
No, there is –look here http://www.amazon.com/Freedom-Extremes- ... ds=gorampaKonchog1 wrote:Hmm, no English translation. Could you please bulletpoint some of them here?
Contentment is the ultimate wealth;
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
Detachment is the final happiness. ~Sri Saraha
Re: Western geshes and khenpos
Maybe some of my old notes (although they are rather random) could add to your study of the word "Loppon", basically I think when they refer to just "Lopon" this means teacher, especially a scholarly teacher, whereas a "Dorje Lopon" has the connotation of being a "Vajra Master".Adamantine wrote:
.. never been clear on the meaning of loppon.
"Lopön is a Tibetan word that means 'teacher' (acarya in Sanskrit)"... according to The Lotus Garden site, also
Mindrolling Jetsün Khandro Rinpoche appointed western Lopön's at Mindroling Lotus Garden:
http://www.lotusgardens.org/lopons/index.cfm
There is also the term "Dorje Lopon" (Wylie: rdo-rje slob-dpon)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorje_Lop%C3%B6n (A Dorje Lopon) has the meaning of being a "Vajra Master".
Ani Lopon Yeshe Lhamo
http://damchoe.wordpress.com/2007/01/18 ... -teachers/
Lopön Peter
http://www.chronicleproject.com/stories_282.html
http://www.chronicleproject.com/stories_280.html
"Lopon" Tenzin Namdak (is of course, also a Rinpoche)
Lopon also spelled Loppön, is used for "Loppön" Jigme Rinpoche
Instance of a non monastic teacher in Drikung Kagyu being titled a "Dorje Lopon" in the West:
Asheville-based Urban Dharma NC founder Hun Y. Lye honored by Tibetan buddhist organization
"Dr. Hun Y. Lye, Founder and President of Urban Dharma NC, has had the title and position of “Dorjé Lopön” (Vajra Master) bestowed upon him by His Holiness Drikung Kyabgön Chetsang Rinpoché, the leader of the Drikung Kagyü lineage of Tibetan Buddhism at Drikung Kagyü Institute in Dehradun, India, on March 10, 2013. This is the first instance the title of Dorjé Lopön has been given to a non-monastic teacher in the Drikung Kagyü in the West."
Article: http://www.mountainx.com/article/49149/ ... ganization
Re: Western geshes and khenpos
Odd. I don't know why I didn't find it. Thank you.Adamantine wrote:No, there is –look here http://www.amazon.com/Freedom-Extremes- ... ds=gorampaKonchog1 wrote:Hmm, no English translation. Could you please bulletpoint some of them here?
Equanimity is the ground. Love is the moisture. Compassion is the seed. Bodhicitta is the result.
-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra
"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."
-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats
-Paraphrase of Khensur Rinpoche Lobsang Tsephel citing the Guhyasamaja Tantra
"All memories and thoughts are the union of emptiness and knowing, the Mind.
Without attachment, self-liberating, like a snake in a knot.
Through the qualities of meditating in that way,
Mental obscurations are purified and the dharmakaya is attained."
-Ra Lotsawa, All-pervading Melodious Drumbeats
- Lobsang Chojor
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Re: Western geshes and khenpos
I know this is a dead thread
But I thought you might like to know that Ven. Tenzin Namdak is preparing for his Geshe exam in May. And, Geshe Graham Woodhouse is a western Geshe who lives in the UK.
But I thought you might like to know that Ven. Tenzin Namdak is preparing for his Geshe exam in May. And, Geshe Graham Woodhouse is a western Geshe who lives in the UK.
"Morality does not become pure unless darkness is dispelled by the light of wisdom"
- Aryasura, Paramitasamasa 6.5
Re: Western geshes and khenpos
I think that in the Yungdrung Bön tradition:smcj wrote:
Bon geshes? Doesn't sound right. I can't see them having any overlap with Gelugpas.
Khenpo = Tha Abbot of the Monastery
Gueshe = Gueshe as know in Guelug school
Lopön = The dean / head of the Shedra or Drupdra
Re: Western geshes and khenpos
It means the Tibetan for acharya.Adamantine wrote:What is the difference between loppon and khenpo?Virgo wrote:Malcolm is one of the few people who hold the distinguished title of Loppon.
Kevin
I know a loppon who has a very limited breadth of knowledge, I think it was just an honorary title I guess. . or maybe it acknowledges their competence and capacity in a particular focus of Dharma practice and study, rather than a wide one. I think Khenpo usually indicates someone with a vast breadth of knowledge in the Dharma, that's why I am asking.. never been clear on the meaning of loppon.
Kevin
- Lobsang Chojor
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Re: Western geshes and khenpos
I was mistaken Geshe Tenzin Namdak had his graduation on the 6th May and graduated as a Lingse Geshe, some photos on the Sera Jey Monastery facebook page.Lobsang Chojor wrote:I know this is a dead thread
But I thought you might like to know that Ven. Tenzin Namdak is preparing for his Geshe exam in May. And, Geshe Graham Woodhouse is a western Geshe who lives in the UK.
"Morality does not become pure unless darkness is dispelled by the light of wisdom"
- Aryasura, Paramitasamasa 6.5
Re: Western geshes and khenpos
Virgo wrote:It means the Tibetan for acharya.Adamantine wrote:What is the difference between loppon and khenpo?Virgo wrote:Malcolm is one of the few people who hold the distinguished title of Loppon.
Kevin
I know a loppon who has a very limited breadth of knowledge, I think it was just an honorary title I guess. . or maybe it acknowledges their competence and capacity in a particular focus of Dharma practice and study, rather than a wide one. I think Khenpo usually indicates someone with a vast breadth of knowledge in the Dharma, that's why I am asking.. never been clear on the meaning of loppon.
Kevin
I have met some pretty stupid khenpos...there are some who are really just business khenpos.
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Re: Western geshes and khenpos
A very good book which contains Gorampa's refutation of Tsongkhapa's view of Madhyamaka is 'Mipham's Beacon Of Certainty' by John W Petit. This is an excellent book on many levels and covers a tremendous amount of territory regarding the history Of Madhyamaka, Yogacara, and Vajrayana, up through Dzogchen.Konchog1 wrote:Odd. I don't know why I didn't find it. Thank you.Adamantine wrote:No, there is –look here http://www.amazon.com/Freedom-Extremes- ... ds=gorampaKonchog1 wrote:Hmm, no English translation. Could you please bulletpoint some of them here?
Re: Western geshes and khenpos
Titles are pretty useless.Adamantine wrote:What is the difference between loppon and khenpo?Virgo wrote:Malcolm is one of the few people who hold the distinguished title of Loppon.
Kevin
I know a loppon who has a very limited breadth of knowledge, I think it was just an honorary title I guess. . or maybe it acknowledges their competence and capacity in a particular focus of Dharma practice and study, rather than a wide one. I think Khenpo usually indicates someone with a vast breadth of knowledge in the Dharma, that's why I am asking.. never been clear on the meaning of loppon.
I was on a retreat once with a geshe who was shockingly clueless and didnt believe me when i told him huffing gasoline was dangerous.
No joke.
"All phenomena of samsara depend on the mind, so when the essence of mind is purified, samsara is purified. Since the phenomena of nirvana depend on the pristine consciousness of vidyā, because one remains in the immediacy of vidyā, buddhahood arises on its own. All critical points are summarized with those two." - Longchenpa
Re: Western geshes and khenpos
That is scary.Josef wrote: Titles are pretty useless.
I was on a retreat once with a geshe who was shockingly clueless and didnt believe me when i told him huffing gasoline was dangerous.
No joke.
Virgo