Western geshes and khenpos

A forum for those wishing to discuss Buddhist history and teachings in the Western academic manner, referencing appropriate sources.
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smcj
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Western geshes and khenpos

Postby smcj » Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:18 pm

I know that there are at least 2 western geshes. There's Geshe Michael Roach and George Dreyfus. Are there any other geshes or khenpos from the western world yet? Thurman isn't a geshe, right?
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Grigoris
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Re: Western geshes and khenpos

Postby Grigoris » Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:04 pm

"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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smcj
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Re: Western geshes and khenpos

Postby smcj » Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:06 pm

Don't take me too seriously.

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Grigoris
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Re: Western geshes and khenpos

Postby Grigoris » Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:09 pm

My first Buddhist teacher here in Greece (Στάθης Λιακόπουλος) was honorarily bestowed with the title geshe (by HH Penor Rinpoche) for his work in translating Buddhist literature and organising the fledgling Buddhist community here in Greece.
"My religion is not deceiving myself."
Jetsun Milarepa 1052-1135 CE

"Butchers, prostitutes, those guilty of the five most heinous crimes, outcasts, the underprivileged: all are utterly the substance of existence and nothing other than total bliss."
The Supreme Source - The Kunjed Gyalpo
The Fundamental Tantra of Dzogchen Semde

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justsit
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Re: Western geshes and khenpos

Postby justsit » Sat Jan 25, 2014 10:21 pm

Karl Brunnholzl is Khenpo.

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Tom
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Re: Western geshes and khenpos

Postby Tom » Sat Jan 25, 2014 11:45 pm

Also, Geshe Nicholas Vreeland...

The Geshe title has a number of levels and the one that really counts is the title Geshe Lharam. With the other levels of Geshe awarded there is not the same guarantee around the level of scholarship achieved. I am not sure how many Westerners have achieved the Lharam level but Dreyfus did and also I heard that Ian Coghlan (Jampa Ignyen) all but took the test. Does any one know other Western Geshe Lharampas?
Last edited by Tom on Sat Jan 25, 2014 11:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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justsit
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Re: Western geshes and khenpos

Postby justsit » Sat Jan 25, 2014 11:45 pm

Some discussion on the qualities of Khenpo from the :

Individuals who wish to pursue Dharma studies usually enter and complete a course of studies in a monastic college or shedra. Those who excel in their studies and are outstanding teachers must be appointed by a lineage holder or the head of a monastery.

A khenpo must possess learning in five areas of Buddhist scriptures: Abhidharma (scriptural collections that analyze all types of phenomena); Pramana or Valid Cognition (classifications of mind and reasoning); Vinaya (presentations of monastic discipline); Prajnaparamita (scriptures on ultimate wisdom and the bodhisattva path); and Madhyamaka or Middle Way (refutations of all assertions and identification of emptiness).

However being a khenpo is something more than mere learning alone: they must possess three qualities: learning, nobility of conduct, and an excellent altruistic intention and the ability to help others (khay-tsun-zang sum). Just being learned but behaving improperly with a worldly motivation does not make a khenpo. All three qualities must be complete. Otherwise, an ordinary householder with a Phd. in Buddhist studies would be a khenpo.

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smcj
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Re: Western geshes and khenpos

Postby smcj » Sat Jan 25, 2014 11:52 pm

Last edited by smcj on Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
Don't take me too seriously.

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justsit
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Re: Western geshes and khenpos

Postby justsit » Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:00 am

Website may not have been updated? Karl's Khenpo status was made public over a year ago.

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Tom
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Re: Western geshes and khenpos

Postby Tom » Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:01 am


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smcj
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Re: Western geshes and khenpos

Postby smcj » Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:09 am

Don't take me too seriously.

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justsit
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Re: Western geshes and khenpos

Postby justsit » Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:24 am

Tenzin Wangyal Rinpoche is Geshe. See his . Maybe there are others? :shrug:

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conebeckham
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Re: Western geshes and khenpos

Postby conebeckham » Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:28 am

Bonpos definitely use the term "geshe."

And yes, Karl Brunnholzl was given the title of Khenpo a while back....


"Absolute Truth is not an object of analytical discourse or great discriminating wisdom,
It is realized through the blessing grace of the Guru and fortunate Karmic potential.
Like this, mistaken ideas of discriminating wisdom are clarified."
- (Kyabje Bokar Rinpoche, from his summary of "The Ocean of Definitive Meaning")

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Malcolm
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Re: Western geshes and khenpos

Postby Malcolm » Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:33 am





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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smcj
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Re: Western geshes and khenpos

Postby smcj » Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:47 am

Don't take me too seriously.

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Malcolm
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Re: Western geshes and khenpos

Postby Malcolm » Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:53 am





འ༔ ཨ༔ ཧ༔ ཤ༔ ས༔ མ༔


Free of hope and fear, relax.
Human life spent in
a state of great spaciousness is enjoyable.


— Kunzang Dechen Lingpa

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justsit
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Re: Western geshes and khenpos

Postby justsit » Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:56 am

And, we now have the first Western woman Geshe..

theanarchist
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Re: Western geshes and khenpos

Postby theanarchist » Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:18 am


Punya
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Re: Western geshes and khenpos

Postby Punya » Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:34 am

Just as the trunk of an ordinary tree
Lying in the forests of the Malaya mountains
Absorbs the perfume of sandal from the moist leaves and branches
So you come to resemble who whomever you follow.

~Words of My Perfect Teacher

Punya
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Re: Western geshes and khenpos

Postby Punya » Sun Jan 26, 2014 1:39 am

Just as the trunk of an ordinary tree
Lying in the forests of the Malaya mountains
Absorbs the perfume of sandal from the moist leaves and branches
So you come to resemble who whomever you follow.

~Words of My Perfect Teacher


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